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[{Sephiroth}]

According to the news on the home page only 7gb is useable by the 360 for game data. This is worrying. Anyone know why, or is there somehting I'm missing?

[twistedsymphony]

well a typical dual layer DVD holds 8.3GB after formatting

If it's anything like the current Gen Xbox MS has arbitrarily capped the amount of storage they can use so that the outer edge of the disc can receive damage without loosing data.

Also we have no idea how much space might be lost to any mandatory data encryption, dash-updates etc.

This post has been edited by twistedsymphony: Sep 9 2005, 07:42 PM

[{Sephiroth}]

Thats worrying. 9GB may not be enough let alone 7. PS3 has Blu-Ray which is many GB per disc, but 360 only having 7gb as its maximum storage for games is ver very worrying. That could just about hold Jade Empire

[Deftech]

I thought Bethesda said theyve only filled 6 gigs worth and have about "3" left, so the current format is more than enough. Last I checked, 6 and 3 = 9.

I can find the video interview where the lead designer says the disc does hold 9. I just remembered he said 9 gigs. I doubt hes lying, but wtf do I know.

[{Sephiroth}]

I saw that yesterday which is another reason this info is confusing me. But it is apprently official info

[twistedsymphony]

who knows... though it was translated from a 3rd party japanese source  :lol:

What I found most interesting was this:

QUOTE

-In a double-layer DVD for Xbox 360, 7GB is usable by a game. The transfer rate of the DVD drive is 15MB/sec max, 10-12MB/sec average. The seek time is 115ms, switching layers takes 75ms. Loading 512MB data takes 34 seconds.
-2GB in the HDD is used for a temporary cache area for games. Its average transfer rate is 17MB/sec and the average seek time is 13ms.

Once you get past the seek time the DVD drive is capable transferring almost as fast as the HDD... though "on average" it's 1/3 slower... so if it takes 15 seconds without the HDD it will take 10 seconds with it...

Not to mention this is the same "speed increase" most found with the ATA100/133 cable upgrade so those that didn't notice a difference have nothing to worry about when playing without a hard drive  :lol:

[Avenger 2.0]

Nothing keeps the developers from using multiple DVD's.
Don't forget that PC games will have to fit on DVD's too for the next years.

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE(Avenger 2.0 @ Sep 9 2005, 03:34 PM)

Don't forget that PC games will have to fit on DVD's too for the next years.

  Yeah, since they just started using them. I was so fucking sick of 6 CD games. :lol:

The reason why the space bothers me is very simple. The system isnt even out yet and games are about to burst off the 9GB disc. In a few years that could be bad. Here is an example. First Generation PS2 were mostly on CD (650MB) and the ones that were on DVD were only about 1GB. Well, now PS2 games are starting to be dual layer.......it went from games fitting on one CD to games just fitting on a 4.7GB DVD to games on Dual-layer 9GB DVD's. I really don't want multi disc xbox 360 games. Since I want next generation to have more games with free roaming enviroments or very large scale enviroments, I dont want to have to change the disc to get from point A to point B.

[{Sephiroth}]

The thing about PC games is that they have to be installed and so are compressed on the media they come on (I think...)

To be completely honest I believe the only games this will effect is huge RPG's like Elder Scrolls 4 (but not Elder Scrolls 4 itself). This shouldn't affect first person shoters or any other genre. And really its perfectly acceptable. But just 7 gb worries me

This post has been edited by {Sephiroth}: Sep 9 2005, 10:31 PM

[{Sephiroth}]

Hmm ok part of the Japanese site (where it came from originally and the other site didnt translate this bit for some reason) appears to be confused about the 7gb by saying "The remaining 1.5gb for system usage/function?"

I hope that this article is incorrect and it's just the Japanese trying to cripple MS by saying their next gen system cant handle anything released 2007+ (which is basicaly what a 7gb limit would do, unless some people come up with some amazing compression techniques for both audio and textures)

[{Sephiroth}]

Mods can you move this over to the normal X360 hardware forums rather than hardware/case modding. Didnt realise I put it in the modding section

[Mojiba]

I'm not too worried about having to hypothetically, in the future, have to change discs after some hours of smooth playing, what really worries me is to have to play something on new technology discs not yet optimized and having to "loading..." stare "loading..." every "loading..." ten "loading..." minutes "loading..." a boring "loading..." screen for "loading..." something to "loading..." load =)

[{Sephiroth}]

Lol yeah the 360's DVD drive is only 2mb/sec slower than the HDD. You seen the article about MS supporting FVD? Do you reckon the 360 will be compatible with it? Because if the 360 media could hold 15gb I would be perfectly happy. Thats sufficient for this upcoming generation. Obviously most games would still be on DVD but for the few that need it that would be perfect.

I reckon they may be incorporating that into the 360 for future use. Hmm I was always suspicious how Elder Scrolls 4 fit onto the 360 DVD discs...

[aepuppetmaster]

this is another reason that the xbox should have a hd-dvd drive, even if it doesn't take off it still has the potetial storage.  Iono if it will be a big problem for games for the first 2-3 years.  i mean i don't know if its shrunk or not but like new releases of Rainbow six and stuff are only 2.5gb, and ur right, only rpg's come to mind when thinking of dual layer (like jade empire) and i mean halo 2 was only ~4.4gb.  Later this may be a problem tho, but then theres always the posibility of a good compresion sceme that uses the extra cores in the cpu (like u'll still see load screens but it will just decompress into ram and then ur good to go).  And u guys can't really make a comprison to pc games w/ multiple discs.  when u have a hdd that u can put everything on, it doesn't matter how may discs u have, but when u have none it does.  i mean if the dev's knew that all 360's had hdd, they could say, have u stick in the disc with the levels, which would off load them to the hdd and then play the engine off the dvd.  but either devs will have to deal by useing some creative way, or there will have to be hdd only games.  as for the hdd being almost as fast, that is understandable.  i mean laptop drives are notoriecly slow (escially the cheaper one with low low rpms)  but they will always have higher sustainable read mbs/s and they also greatly benifit from seek times.

[Infamous_One]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Sep 9 2005, 08:47 PM)

who knows... though it was translated from a 3rd party japanese source  :lol:

What I found most interesting was this:
Once you get past the seek time the DVD drive is capable transferring almost as fast as the HDD... though "on average" it's 1/3 slower... so if it takes 15 seconds without the HDD it will take 10 seconds with it...

Not to mention this is the same "speed increase" most found with the ATA100/133 cable upgrade so those that didn't notice a difference have nothing to worry about when playing without a hard drive  :lol:

FUCK! , so i dont really get a 20GB for me just 18GB and HD's not always brings 20GB just around 19GB , so that would make around 17.5GB for me , they better offer me exactly 20GB damn it!!.