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[thax]

QUOTE(NumberOneRB @ Jun 27 2005, 09:42 PM)

Actually, a lot of people DON'T want to deal with this.  Whether some of you like it or not the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disks are the formats of the future, the NEAR future. 

The x360 will be coming out in the VERY NEAR future.  This mean no matter how NEAR you call it, it still isn't NEAR enough to make it into the x360. So "deal with it".

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To make an agreement to side with the HD-DVD with Toshiba and to not fully support this feature by adding it to the X360 would be rediculous on MS part.

Why would it be rediculous? There are financial and technical realities that prevent the HD-DVD being included in the x360, and MS can show support in other ways.

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There is no reason to come out and say "Well, we have sided with Toshiba on HD-DVD and feel that this is the best format in the near future" and then turn around and say "But we won't support this format in our upcoming system and will use the weaker DVD-9 format."

Straw Man. "As a rhetorical term, "straw man" describes a point of view that was created in order to be easily defeated in argument; the creator of a "straw man" argument does not accurately reflect the best arguments of his or her opponents, but instead sidesteps or mischaracterizes them so as to make the opposing view appear weak or ridiculous."
You are right, there is no reason to come out and say those things, and guess what, they won't. There is several reasons why the DVD-9 format is superior to any of the new formats for use in a console.

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The fact that HD-DVD is cheaper than Blu-Ray for production due to the fact that factories don't have to change their basic tools in creating these disks (basically have same tools used to create standard DVDs) would fit perfectly with MS's "keep prices low" approach.

Except the drives cost more and there will be supply and defect problems. The primary goal of MS is to get to 10 million units before Sony even launches, and most sales for consoles happen before Chrismas.

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Adding a feature such as HD-DVD to the X360 would greatly increase interest in the system due to the fact that the technology gap between the PS3 and X360 would drastically close. 

What technology gap? The DVD-9 drive is superior in all of the important metrics as defined by the game developers.

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Mass production of the X360 has not even happened and the finalized hardware will not be complete until mid-late July according to most websites.  So there is still ample time for MS to make an announcement in the near future that they will be supporting HD-DVD in their console.

We can only hope they stick to thier guns and stay with the DVD-9 format.

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE(NumberOneRB @ Jun 27 2005, 05:59 PM)

I dont' agree with the whole "MS spent their money on HDD, while Sony spent theirs on Blu-Ray and HDMI" becasue HDDs nowadays are dirt cheap.  And given the fact that MS only uses a 20 GB HDD gives you an idea of just how cheap HDDs are right now.  I could prolly go to Best Buy right now and get a 100 GB HDD for like $50 (maybe even cheaper on Ebay or something).

And that would be your standard 3.5" IDE HDD. Now look at the price of a laptop drive as looking at the slot on the xbox 360, it will be either a laptop HDD or a special made HDD to help prevent modders.

[NumberOneRB]

Please tell me deftones how a slower transer rate, less space, less HD quality, and lesser speeds makes a standard DVD-9 better than any type of HD-format?  Common sense would tell you that if DVD-9s were better formats than the HD formats coming out then there would be no need for all these companies to shell out millions of dollars in research and production in order to create these disks.  And calling me a "Scare Crow' or "Straw Hat" or whatever the hell you're trying to label me as has nothing to do with my arguments.

[thax]

QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Jun 27 2005, 11:45 PM)

If M$ doesnt want to support true HD connections then why woudl they want to support HD-DVD?

Component analog inputs are true HD connections.

[taximan89]

It's always better to have fast reliable technology then new technology that will be slow compared to superior transfer speeds five years from now. We always complain because the Xbox reads at 4x. Well now we get 12x, which is better than having new technology at minimal transfer speeds which will affect transfer rates, which would waffect games in the consoles later life. 9 GBs is plenty of space for game data.

[thax]

QUOTE(NumberOneRB @ Jun 28 2005, 12:17 AM)

Please tell me deftones how a slower transer rate, less space, less HD quality, and lesser speeds makes a standard DVD-9 better than any type of HD-format? 

Please read the following thread, I don't want to copy and paste everything.
http://forums.xbox-s...ic=407854&st=15

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Common sense would tell you that if DVD-9s were better formats than the HD formats coming out then there would be no need for all these companies to shell out millions of dollars in research and production in order to create these disks. 

Common sense would also tell you that it doesn't matter how many millions of dollars are being invested in a new technology, the most important factor to consider first is whether the technology meets the requirements or not.

Appeal to Novelty
"The appeal to novelty (also called argumentum ad novitam) is a logical fallacy in which someone claims that his or her idea or proposal is correct or superior because it is new and modern."

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And calling me a "Scare Crow' or "Straw Hat" or whatever the hell you're trying to label me as has nothing to do with my arguments.

If you bothered to read what I quoted you would realize that I was not calling you a name, I was categorizing the logical fallacy you were using to support your argument. Straw Man is a weak or rediculous construction of someone elses position, which is then easily defeated by whatever reasoning your present. To say it has nothing to do with your argument, when it is what your argument was based on, is absurd.

[NumberOneRB]

Well Thax, I have a definition for you then, "Smart-ass"- one that thinks he has an answer for anything and everything, one that feels as though he needs to define everyone else's methods other than his own.  Another definition for you would be "No Life"- defined by the fact that you actually took the time to find definitions to label certain examples, then had the time to write out the definitions.  The fact is the speeds of these HD drives won't be a problem since more data can be transfered in that given time.  I could see if the HD drives read at the same speed or lower as standard DVD drives and had the same data transfer, but the fact of the matter is that since much more data can be read in that amount of time on an HD disk, the speed actually seems faster than normal DVD transfer rates.  Its not so much about the relative speed of the rates, its how much data can be transfered at that given rate.  And in this instance, HD-disks blow standard DVDs out of the water.

[nj12nets]

im sorry but do you not understand english. Can you read?  all BRD and HD-DVD are 1X at i believe 23mbps. the dvd9 drive is 12x. now 1x for dvd is 11mbps. 11x 12 =132mbps.  now which has faster data transfer.

it doesnt seem faster because 12x is like 3 times more data per second. what are you talking about?

[nj12nets]

hd-dvd is 36.55Mbps -straight from http://www.hddvdprg....vd/hddvd_3.html

BRD is As a result, Blu-ray Disc supports the highest quality HD video available in the industry (up to 1920 x 1080 at 40 Mbit/sec) - Large capacity means no compromise on video quality.  from
http://blu-raydisc.c...3627/Index.html


like i said dvd-9 is much faster

[NumberOneRB]

Ok, now reading all of that (and by you reading all of that as well), tell me how a normal DVD-9 is better than a HD-disk?  From what I've read it would seem that with HD-disks you may not be able to read data as fast as the 12X DVD-9s, but you will be able to read a ton more data in that given time on the HD-disks.

[nj12nets]

no you dont understand. in each pass for 12x dvd 132 mbps is transfered. thats it  on hddvd in each pass 36.55 mbps is transfered. thats it.  forBRD 40mbps is transfered.thats it.  thats how quickly it is transfered.

[yerac]

i dont know if im way off in this but i always thought hd-dvds were High Density DVDs. Because in NERO you can burn an HD-DVD and they call it a high density dvd. So i thought it was just a dvd where you could put a lot more data on. Not to view stuff in high deff. idk, thats just what i always thought. if im wrong someone please correct me.

[ATrillionaire]

QUOTE(NumberOneRB @ Jun 28 2005, 01:51 AM)

Ok, now reading all of that (and by you reading all of that as well), tell me how a normal DVD-9 is better than a HD-disk?  From what I've read it would seem that with HD-disks you may not be able to read data as fast as the 12X DVD-9s, but you will be able to read a ton more data in that given time on the HD-disks.

[NumberOneRB]

Besides the fact that I just got owned, I will say that I still believe MS may put the HD-DVD drives in the X360 as a standard.  I think Toshiba is really trying to push MS to standardize it in their console so they can get them out to the market before Sony's Blu-Ray tech is released.  I think Toshiba is going to offer MS a deal they almost can't refuse.  I'm thinking along the lines of selling the disks to MS for dirt cheap so MS will implement them into their console, then Toshiba will take any initial financial losses.  So basically, MS would get to use the format basically for free.  One disadvantage Toshiba will have if MS decides not to add it to the X360 is that there won't be an initial way to fully mainstream their new format to consumers.  Sony will have the upper hand in this regard with Blu-Ray in that every consumer that purchases a PS3 will immediately have a Blue-Ray player, making for better mainstream among consumers.  And after reading an article on Gamespot about HD-DVD and Blu-Ray disks, it seems as though HD-DVD disks will only be about 10% more expensive than standard DVDs, so it shouldn't be that expensive to put the HD-DVD format into the X360.

[Twasi]