Print

[Landlocked]

The revised next gen xbox still uses outdated technology...brilliant!!

[mlmadmax]

HDMI ver 1.3 will also effect the video side of things when deep color telivision sets come out but thats not for a year or so.

I bet in a future build of the elite they will us 1.3.

[Namarrgon]

Deep colour - no point. All consoles render into the usual 24 bit framebuffer, so there's no deep colours to display.

HD-DVD movies might in theory allow for more than 24 bit colour (not that a console could use it if they did) but AFAIK the compression schemes they use currently are based on subsampled YUV, and actually contain less colour information than the uncompressed RGB from games.

[jeff10]

I havent a clue as to what that says, means??

Is it saying that right now with my current xbox 360 i use the optical cable and i get 5.1 surround sound.

but...

if i buy the elite and use hdmi, i get 2.1 surround.

 

[Namarrgon]

Who cares about HDMI 1.3? The PS3 can and probably does send its game surround over multichannel PCM - no reason for it not to. The Elite ought to be able to as well. Perhaps it can - for games.

Perhaps the only limitation here is that the HD-DVD player software cannot currently decode TrueHD and DD+, and so will only output ordinary DD/DTS/stereo PCM. If so, they can easily enough add the decoder via a software update, the Elite will output it via multichannel PCM, and we can all relax.

HDMI 1.3 support is a red herring - it's entirely irrelevant, so long as the player can (or will) decode & output to plain old multichannel PCM, like it's supposed to.

[feflicker]

Why would MS$ even add HDMI if they weren't going to support what Sony already supports in the PS3? They just open themselves up to this "Xbox 360 is not true high def experience" comments from Sony. I, personally, could give a rats a$$, but still...

In other news, this information was actually in the original article about HDMI (the fact it was 1.2 and not 1.3), so I don't know why this is "news" now?...

[namrrac]

At the 30 at the 20 at the 10...FUMBLE, oh no they blew it folks.

Microsoft:
Open source the 360, and they will come.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(ConteZero76 @ Apr 2 2007, 07:18 AM)

FeFlicker, go search "Analog Sunset", you'll discover that TV brands agreed on limiting analog inputs capabilities in the future, by 2010 new TV set should have only component capaible of 480p/576i and by 2013 there will be no component at all.
So you've to go to a digital interface if you're planning to sell XBox360 after 2010, that's the reason in going to HDMI.

2013 is a long way away my, my friend. They'll be another Xbox console by this time and definitely another PlayStation (Sony already announced that a 'PS4' would be released after 2010).

The 360 Elite will be cheap to pick up (which resolves the whole analog problem) - your beloved launch 360 console will either be spare parts or stored in a cupboard somewhere!

Have you a link for the TV brands agreement to scrap analogue input by 2013?

[bucko]

I believe there is no 1.3 HDMI HD TV's in the UK yet, I could be wrong, maybe thats there reasoning, it's not so popular yet. Hopefully the Elite will be 1.3 by the time it hits Europe and 1.3 TV's will be cheap as chips.

[grim_d]

QUOTE(bucko @ Apr 2 2007, 02:35 PM)

I believe there is no 1.3 HDMI HD TV's in the UK yet, I could be wrong, maybe thats there reasoning, it's not so popular yet. Hopefully the Elite will be 1.3 by the time it hits Europe and 1.3 TV's will be cheap as chips.

at the rate tattie prices are rising itl soon be "chips are cheap as hdtv's"

[epsilon72]

Seriously??  NO multichannel PCM?  What's the *$&%ing point of having HDMI then?

Screw the elite...

EDIT:  Now I'm a whiner too

Maybe I'll just get an "un-elite" 360 with a Benq drive to play GHII on, now that I know HDMI will not benefit me at all. (tv supports 1080p through component, vga, DVI, and HDMI)

[thax]

QUOTE(itchy @ Apr 2 2007, 03:56 PM)

Well it seems like the 1.2 HDMI is a M$ bandaid solution only for those TV's that won't support 1080P over component, but will through their HDMI.  There apparently are some TV's with this limitation.

HDMI 1.2 is pretty useless for people that want 1080p over component since it only supports 1080p30, or 30fps.

QUOTE

Owning a PS3 & Sony's HDMI 1.3 STR-DG1000 reciever, I do enjoy watching movies in uncompressed linear PCM 5.1.  Resistance Fall of Man does sound better than any other game I've played... especially when bullets fly over your head.

The STR-DG1000 costs about 800 dollars and only has 2 HDMI inputs. I guess since there really isn't many HDMI 1.3 devices on the market there isn't much choice, but in my opinion HDMI isn't worth the money at this point. It is too expensive for the relative quality increase coupled with the problems that accompany the new technology.

[zombie4rave]

QUOTE

Yes, HDMI 1.2 allows uncompressed PCM. But the 360 data path to that bridge is not wide enough to support it.

So basically it looks like they've coupled the HDMI audio path to the same one they use for optical audio so it carries the same restrictions (1.5Mbps max/2 channel PCM ).  Apparently they decided that adding an upgraded audio path for HDMI was not worth the extra design cost. It really is disappointing to hear.  I have a PS3 connected to an HDMI Denon receiver.  The uncompressed PCM and Dolby TrueHD audio on blu ray discs is excellent.  Clearly besting the 1.5Mbps max DTS you can pull out of optical. If you've got the right gear to take advantage of it, high resolution audio really is very impressive.

[thax]

For some reason I had the impression that HDMI 1.0-1.2 did not have sufficient bandwidth to handle 1080p60, however after reviewing the technical specifications I have discovered I was wrong.

HDMI 1.2 easily has enough bandwidth for 1080p60 even at 24 bit color.

[epsilon72]

QUOTE(zombie4rave @ Apr 2 2007, 11:58 AM)

There seems to be a lot of bad information going around in this thread.  I suggest that anyone interested in this topic  check out a few threads on the AVS forum.  This one - Why you don't need HMDI 1.3 and this one discussing PCM and receivers.  HDMI 1.1 is all that is required for 1080P video and up to 8 channels of PCM audio as well as the standard legacy DD/DTS.

The following is a quote from Amir at Microsoft in the Industry Insiders thread (pg.111) on the 360 and advanced audio/PCM output
So basically it looks like they've coupled the HDMI audio path to the same one they use for optical audio so it carries the same restrictions (1.5Mbps max/2 channel PCM ).  Apparently they decided that adding an upgraded audio path for HDMI was not worth the extra design cost. It really is disappointing to hear.  I have a PS3 connected to an HDMI Denon receiver.  The uncompressed PCM and Dolby TrueHD audio on blu ray discs is excellent.  Clearly besting the 1.5Mbps max DTS you can pull out of optical. If you've got the right gear to take advantage of it, high resolution audio really is very impressive.

^This guy knows what he's talking about
I frequently point HDMI noobies to those exact same avsforum threads (the two receiver ones).

I personally think adding HDMI without changing the audio capabilities of the unit is a really dumb move, but that's Microsoft's decision.  I guess my PS3 will be the only console to really take advantage of my receiver (also a HDMI Denon) for the next few years-

But on the bright side, this means I can get a "regular" 360 for cheaper than the "7331" one, and use the VGA cable that I already have (good thing I kept it).  

It's still a good thing I sold my other one, because it had strangely loud case fans and a jet engine T/S drive

Anyone else think this move is another nail in the coffin for HD-DVD?