Print

[BCfosheezy]

lol I read where you changed my quote into your slanerous, backwards opinions. Because these 4:3 modes were possible on the original xbox (that was out before hi def was mainstream and before ANY games were playable in hi def) that makes it rational to assume that the xbox 360 that is actually meant for hi definition and is touted as "next-gen" should include these non-standard backwards-thinking aspect ratios. Yes that makes perfect sense... wait NO!! Also, don't be upset I have a house full of widescreen hi def tv's that I bought (because I make informed decisions and I don't whine and blame others for my own stupidity) and I paid <$700 for all but the ones > 50". You could too if you were a smart consumer... but you've already proven that you are not.

You're the only one on the crazy crybaby side. Just suck it up and get a hdtv that conforms to the hd standard and you won't have to cry and moan. Make informed decisions and be an informed consumer. There are always hdtv specials floating around on the net for widescreen sets in excess of 30 inches for less than 500 dollars. I bought several.

Ha every time I read your post I find something more crazy and off base. The extra area a widescreen tv has wasn't even intended? HAHA I don't even need to argue with that. It's just wrong and crazy. Have fun lying and denying responsibility for your own actions nutjob.

[Hopeful]

Allright just to be clear since a couple of the last posts seem to be getting out of hand and personal over nothing and going into a really personal and babyish territory over exact specs,

I'm an advocate of 16:9 HDTVs too, In fact I wanted one since HDTV came out, but I don't have the money to get one. I simply think, and correct me if I'm wrong by all means, that it would be a simple task for the 360's powerful hardware to reproportion the video, cut out the extra viewing area that wouldn't normally be available in 4:3 anyway, and move the huds and displays, wether or not the game supports 4:3. Even if the huds are painted in position and have to be chopped off, I wouldn't mind. I'm a bit confused about the statement that it's up to game companies to support 1080i 4:3, since there seems to be no 1080i 4:3 setting to make such support possible.

I support the 360 supporting 16:9 as a standard for widescreen TVs so there's no need to whine like you got attacked by the suggestion that 1080i 4:3 tvs should also be included as a video option. This in no way negatively affects people with 16:9 tvs. Simply the fact that these hybrid TVs exist is far more of a reason than conforming to exact blueprints some TVs don't have. 360 1080i should be available over the whole screen to all HDTVs. You can simultaniously be an advocate for both. If you're not, it is nothing to fight over like babies. I respect your opinion that conforming to the exact 16:9 is the best thing, open your mind and respect mine I ask. I don't care if you think it's great.

That's not backwards thinking it's backwards compatible, because the fact is wether or not it's technically within the standard there are a lot of homes with sets like this, and the 360 should be backwards compatible with TV technology. It would in no way be a flaw to include modes for both technically conforming 16:9 TVs and these admittedly slightly off-spec hybrid TVs, because they still exist.

I'm not somehow stupid because I can't afford to buy a new TV. It is not a stupid idea to think the 360 should have this feature the xbox did. So you can get off your high-horse. Yes there were some 1080i games on xbox for which the 4:3 1080i mode looked great. This is not some ludicrously offensive suggestion just because of tech specs, and with all due respect I invite you to get off MS's nuts and stop trying to rip on me as if it was.

To one particularly strange idea, I didn't say the extra widescreen area wasn't intended. I said you're not supposed to get the extra widescreen area in 4:3 mode anyway, so you're not losing anything by chopping it off. Except bits of the huds, which I forgot about, but they're stretched anyway so it wouldn't be much loss. And yeah, I get it, you're rich. I don't care.

So lets stop fighting and get back on topic, since i'm in no way slamming your point of view,  thanks.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(Hopeful @ Jun 1 2006, 11:54 AM)

Allright just to be clear since a couple of the last posts seem to be getting out of hand and personal over nothing and going into a really personal and babyish territory over exact specs,

I'm an advocate of 16:9 HDTVs too, In fact I wanted one since HDTV came out, but I don't have the money to get one. I simply think, and correct me if I'm wrong by all means, that it would be a simple task for the 360's powerful hardware to reproportion the video, cut out the extra viewing area that wouldn't normally be available in 4:3 anyway, and move the huds and displays, wether or not the game supports 4:3. Even if the huds are painted in position and have to be chopped off, I wouldn't mind. I'm a bit confused about the statement that it's up to game companies to support 1080i 4:3, since there seems to be no 1080i 4:3 setting to make such support possible.

I support the 360 supporting 16:9 as a standard for widescreen TVs so there's no need to whine like you got attacked by the suggestion that 1080i 4:3 tvs should also be included as a video option. This in no way negatively affects people with 16:9 tvs. Simply the fact that these hybrid TVs exist is far more of a reason than conforming to exact blueprints some TVs don't have. 360 1080i should be available over the whole screen to all HDTVs. You can simultaniously be an advocate for both. If you're not, it is nothing to fight over like babies. I respect your opinion that conforming to the exact 16:9 is the best thing, open your mind and respect mine I ask. I don't care if you think it's great.

That's not backwards thinking it's backwards compatible, because the fact is wether or not it's technically within the standard there are a lot of homes with sets like this, and the 360 should be backwards compatible with TV technology. It would in no way be a flaw to include modes for both technically conforming 16:9 TVs and these admittedly slightly off-spec hybrid TVs, because they still exist.

I'm not somehow stupid because I can't afford to buy a new TV. It is not a stupid idea to think the 360 should have this feature the xbox did. So you can get off your high-horse. Yes there were some 1080i games on xbox for which the 4:3 1080i mode looked great. This is not some ludicrously offensive suggestion just because of tech specs, and with all due respect I invite you to get off MS's nuts and stop trying to rip on me as if it was.

To one particularly strange idea, I didn't say the extra widescreen area wasn't intended. I said you're not supposed to get the extra widescreen area in 4:3 mode anyway, so you're not losing anything by chopping it off. Except bits of the huds, which I forgot about, but they're stretched anyway so it wouldn't be much loss. And yeah, I get it, you're rich. I don't care.

So lets stop fighting and get back on topic, since i'm in no way slamming your point of view, thanks.

#1. To the bolded statement... No there weren't. There were NO 1080i games for xbox. NONE. The highest resolution games the xbox had were 480p. I don't think there was a 720p game but maybe but there were NO 1080i games. I'm not defending MS. I have no reason to. You are blaming something on them that they are clearly not responsible for the blame on.


Your post is not a valid argument. The xbox 360 IS backwards compatible. It works with your television. The argument lies with the fact that you have been blaming MS for the 360 not supporting your uncommon and unstandard video mode on this console. Your only real argument has been that since it worked on the last xbox that it should work on this one too since it is more powerful. It's simply not a valid point since this xbox was designed for hd. The games are designed to conform to the console's specs and the consoles specs are designed to conform with the standards set forth out there. One of these is the HD standard. There was no reason to include uncommon resolutions which also would force the xbox to compromise screen data. Whether you could live with it or not is not the issue. It is unacceptable to a vendor to have their data chopped off. Something important could occur that you simply cannot view and you would complain about that.
You have to live with the fact that your tv does not display ANY widescreen 1080i signal given to it properly. It's not just the xbox 360. That's just the device YOU chose to use. Nobody here agrees with you on this point and nobody who uses rational thought will agree with you. You're being a crybaby about the whole deal. Searching for a workaround is one thing. Placing blame on a vendor YOU chose to use for a problem that only occurs because you mismatched equipment is silly. You really need to give up your argument because myself and everyone else that reads this agrees that it is YOUR fault. Accept responsibility and move on.

Oh and you DON'T get it. I'm NOT rich by any means. I'm a good consumer and take advantage of the deals put before me. It was an easy point to see. Good job missing the obvious ones. Yes you are somehow stupid by thinking that you cannot afford a widescreen high definition tv because with the deals floating around I'm sure you could get one for very near the same price as you paid for your troublesome tv.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Jun 1 2006, 04:23 PM)

How can you be an advocate for widescreen and then make an absolutely ridiculous suggestion like cropping a 16:9 frame to 4:3 regardless of what gets cuts? This has to be the most blind and pigheaded suggestion I have ever come across in these forums, it flys in the face of common sense. Do you also think that George Lucas should give away a free pair of headmounted blinkers with every copy of the Star Wars Trilogy so that views can watch it in 4:3?

If you want to know why the 360 doesn't crop games, it is because MS doesn't want that, the developers/publishers don't want that and by and large, the public don't want that either. It makes perfect sense to the rest of us, that is why you are being ridiculed.

BCfosheezy, the Xbox did indeed support 720p for a small number of games and 1080i for an even smaller number.

ok... I couldn't find any when I looked. Would you mind listing a few?

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(BCfosheezy @ Jun 1 2006, 01:19 PM)

... No there weren't. There were NO 1080i games for xbox. NONE. The highest resolution games the xbox had were 480p. I don't think there was a 720p game but maybe but there were NO 1080i games.

720p:

1)   25 to Life
2)   Amped 2
3)   Atari Anthology
4)   Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
5)   Crash Nitro Kart
6)   Disney's Extreme Skate Adventure
7)   Dragon's Lair 3D
   Enter the Matrix
9)   ESPN Major League Baseball 2K4
10)   ESPN NBA Basketball 2K4
11)   Evil Dead: Regeneration
12)   FIFA Soccer 2006
13)   FIFA Street
14)   FIFA Street 2
15)   Freedom Fighters
16)   The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
17)   MVP Baseball 2004
18)   MVP Baseball 2005
19)   MX Unleashed
20)   MX vs. ATV Unleashed
21)   NBA 2K3
22)   NBA Ballers
23)   NBA Live 2006
24)   The Sims: Bustin' Out
25)   Soul Calibur II (4:3 window in 720p)
26)   Steel Battalion: Line of Contact
27)   Street Hoops
28)   Syberia
29)   Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
30)   Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
31)   Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
32)   Tony Hawk's Underground
33)   Tony Hawk's Underground 2
34)   Total Overdose
35)   True Crime: Streets of L.A
36)   The Urbz: Sims In The City
37)   Virtual Pool
38)   The Warriors
39)   World Series Baseball 2K4
40)   X-Men Legends
41)   X-Men Legends II: Rise of the Apocalypse

1080i:

1)   Atari Anthology
2)   Dragon's Lair 3D
3)   Enter the Matrix
4)   MX Unleashed
5)   MX vs. ATV Unleashed
6)   Syberia

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Jun 2 2006, 03:31 AM)

720p:

1) 25 to Life
2) Amped 2
3) Atari Anthology
4) Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
5) Crash Nitro Kart
6) Disney's Extreme Skate Adventure
7) Dragon's Lair 3D
Enter the Matrix
9) ESPN Major League Baseball 2K4
10) ESPN NBA Basketball 2K4
11) Evil Dead: Regeneration
12) FIFA Soccer 2006
13) FIFA Street
14) FIFA Street 2
15) Freedom Fighters
16) The Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
17) MVP Baseball 2004
18) MVP Baseball 2005
19) MX Unleashed
20) MX vs. ATV Unleashed
21) NBA 2K3
22) NBA Ballers
23) NBA Live 2006
24) The Sims: Bustin' Out
25) Soul Calibur II (4:3 window in 720p)
26) Steel Battalion: Line of Contact
27) Street Hoops
28) Syberia
29) Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
30) Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
31) Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
32) Tony Hawk's Underground
33) Tony Hawk's Underground 2
34) Total Overdose
35) True Crime: Streets of L.A
36) The Urbz: Sims In The City
37) Virtual Pool
38) The Warriors
39) World Series Baseball 2K4
40) X-Men Legends
41) X-Men Legends II: Rise of the Apocalypse

1080i:

1) Atari Anthology
2) Dragon's Lair 3D
3) Enter the Matrix
4) MX Unleashed
5) MX vs. ATV Unleashed
6) Syberia

Ok I'll concede that point. There's nothing wrong with someone accepting responsibility when they are wrong and I'm not too big to do it.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(Hopeful @ Jun 2 2006, 01:41 AM)

Syberia, Enter The Matrix, Dragon's Lair 3D

Wether it's accurate to the exact standard there is such a thing as a 1080i standard screen signal, and it looks good. The xbox had it, so I expected it as a given for the 360. That's in no way an unreasonable expectation. You have a right to believe that's not a flaw. What you don't have the right to do is tell me your point of view is the only rational one. It's true that 16:9 is technically part of the standard, and 4:3 is not exactly 1080i by strict definition. It's also true that this is a technicality, and "1080i 4:3" mode still looks great. If you're faulting 4:3 1080i... Are you saying the xbox is flawed for having it? If not, then how can you say it's a flawed mode? If so, xbox is flawed which contradicts your point that MS isn't at fault.

Equipment matching as a culprit makes 0 sense. Choosing to buy a 360 without knowing it lacks support for the TV does not somehow put me at fault. Knowing that wouldn't have made the console support the video mode, niether was it an option to avoid the 360, nor would it have given me the 400 bucks to get a new TV, nor would it help anyone else with these TVs. You assume I have the money I did when I got the TV. The equipment lacks something the last version of the equipment had. It lacks it, therefore it's a shortcoming, wether it's a 'justified' shortcoming or not is up for debate. You may find that unimportant partly because you have widescreen HDTVs and partly because you think technical specs are more important than supporting all common TVs out there, including obscure ones. And yes this is a fairly common TV.

However the issue was never important enough to waste energy bickering, and I'm uninterested in continuing this battle. The thread had already reached satisfaction and there's just no sense turning it down this road. It's a bit creepy flaming this like Dwight Schrute. We'll never agree but do we have the maturity to drop this semantic little off-topic argument?

Yes, I am saying xbox is flawed for having standard 1080i. I stated that in my second post I believe. It does NOT contradict my point about MS not being at fault because my point was that they got it right with xbox 360. My point had NOTHING to do with the original xbox and I believe it is a flaw with xbox as HD was not commonplace when it came out so testing of a 4:3 aspect ratio with high def resolutions was probably not thought of or considered. Yes that makes it a flaw as it is either disproportionate or crops the outside of the image. This does not disprove any of my points and by you saying it does shows your lack of reading for comprehension skills. I'm not sticking up for MS as a whole. I'm merely showing that you're wrong for placing blame on them for your 360 not showing up correctly on your oddball tv.

Equipment matching makes 100% sense and I'm sorry you lack the brain power to get it. There are thousands of users of the 360 who only have an sdtv. They run it in 480i and don't bitch about it. You're using a tv that doesn't run it correctly in 1080i... so use 480i since that's all your tv supports and don't complain about the xbox 360 not supporting a strange and unusual thing like 1440 x 1080.
There's a couple things you said that are just plain stupid. I'm going to just point a couple of them out.

QUOTE

The equipment lacks something the last version of the equipment had.

The xbox 360 is not designed to be simply an improved xbox. It's entirely different. It does not include a duke controller either.... Jipped AGAIN!!!!!

QUOTE

It lacks it, therefore it's a shortcoming, wether it's a 'justified' shortcoming or not is up for debate.

Just because something lacks something does not make it a shortcoming. Let's say a mother has two children. The first borne of the children has downs syndrome. The second does not. Does the second child who is withOUT downs syndrome have a shortcoming? No. This disproves your statement that excluding something that was in a previous version is automatically a shortcoming. The xbox 360 uses totally different hardware. It is not merely a hardware revision so even your argument of it being more powerful is ridiculous because what makes you think that the video encoder is capable of such a resolution? It probably is but who knows? Better yet, besides you, Who cares?

The fact still remains, your tv does not support standard high definition resolutions. Not just the xbox 360 but ANY device that puts out 1080i according to the high definition standard will not be displayed properly on your television set. It is not all of these manufacturers problem that your tv does not conform to standard. You bought it, live with it. If you don't like the way it displays the standard 1080i input switch to 480i because the standard is the standard and should not be changed because some company made a tv that does not conform to the standard. The standard was made because of things like this. Stop shifting blame to someone else. It's not their fault your stuff doesn't work properly. It's the person who expected the two devices to work together in full glory who is at fault.

[twistedsymphony]

I'll be honest I've never heard of any 4:3 versions of any HD signals....

considering 4:3 is not included in the ASTC standard for HD I'm not even sure how such a resolution would be communicated to a TV properly.

AFAIK settings to stretch or zoom and crop the picture are built into the set and can't be commuicated through the actual HD signal... again because it's not included in the standard.

I could be wrong, I'll I'm saying is I've never seen it work the way you're describing.

Is your Xbox 1 moded? Any chance we could get a photo of XBMC running in 720p or 1080i full screen (preferably with the resoution setting displayed on the screen).

I'm going to test this out when I get home from work...

[twistedsymphony]

Well I'll be DAMNED


^ The Dashboard is set to "fullscreen" with 480p, 720p and 1080i set to YES
The Projector is manually set to 4:3 and as you can see it's getting a FULL 720p signal and the image is displayed in 4:3 with no stretching


^The Dashboard is set to 720p, but as noted it locks out the ability to change the aspect ratio.
Despite this the projector is again manually set to 4:3 and there is some image stretching going on.


^The Projector is manually switched back to 16:9 and the proper 720p image is displayed with no stretching


From this we can see that when the Xbox 1 is set to "full screen" what it does is render the game to a widescreen format but with the impression that the widescreen will then be stretched vertically and simply compensates by squishing the image before it's sent out.

The Xbox 1 is still rendering the 720p/1080i games in a widescreen format, but it takes some extra measures to ensure that it doesn't look stretched when it IS stretched.

I'm not sure if this is a function of the Xbox or of the game... it's hard to say (even still I'd put money on it being a function of the game itself), but it's clear that the 360 doesn't provide the option in the dash meaning that if a 360 game were to support it the developers would have to explicitly add the option in the game itself since there would be no flag to grab from the dashboard.

My advice would be to simply set your 360 to 480p 4:3... the "pre-squish" on the Xbox 1 most likely ruins the would-be HD image anyway... not to mention when the 360 runs in 480p you get lots of extra FSAA  

The 360 is NOT a 4:3 friendly console. a number of games, even when the dashboard is set to 480i/p 4:3 still renders in a letterbox... it's really left up to the game developers and most just render in widescreen and that's it.

[twistedsymphony]

yeah so technically everyone was right... the Xbox 1 supports "fullscreen HD" without breaking the standard..

...it just fakes it.

I personally perfer the wide format anyway, before I had my projector I used to play everything on the Xbox 1 in letterbox justbecause the FOV felt more natural.

[Hopeful]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Jun 5 2006, 12:44 PM)

yeah so technically everyone was right... the Xbox 1 supports "fullscreen HD" without breaking the standard..

...it just fakes it.

I personally perfer the wide format anyway, before I had my projector I used to play everything on the Xbox 1 in letterbox justbecause the FOV felt more natural.

True.
Good points and some helpful ideas about the picture.
Thanks to e-bay I should be getting a new remote tomorrow.
Looking forward to a much crisper picture.
Thanks for the helpful information.