Topic: Lcd Ghosting (Read 265 times)

infamous_Q · « **on:** May 21, 2006, 06:39:00 PM »

I just bought a Proview (its LG's lower end products) 27" LCD HD TV. Pretty decent. I like the picture quality. Although, and I don't know if this is all xbox 360s, the higher resolution (720p) shows a lot of edges, ie it seems a bit pixelated near the edges of stuff, not exactly a smooth transition for curved lines...anyway to fix that or is that just cuz of the high res?

Anyways....i just found out its 16ms response time. That's kind of high for gaming...anyone else have a 16ms LCD screen? What are your thoughts (even if you don't own one...) think thats fast enough? I can definitely notice ghosting when playing PD0, if i just hold the control so i'm turning the gun's tail end leaves a nice lil trail for me to watch.

Thanks for your input guys...i have a 30 day return policy so i just wanna know if i got the best i could. The tv's a decent price (729 cdn for a 27" is pretty good, lots of input and such). so thanks for any input.

lostboyz · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2006, 08:06:00 PM »

16ms is pretty high, and you obviously noticed it. I have 8ms on a 17" monitor and i notice it on fast paced games but not too much but double that time and twice as big and you are definately going to notice it.

Its preference though if you can live with that and like the price, but if you arent satisfied and are willing to spend some more than do that.

infamous_Q · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2006, 11:42:00 PM »

hmm...see i like the price and stuff..and it seems really good. like movies aren't effected (or don't seem to be....) but i have 30 days to take it back. so im probably gonna look around and what not. Think it'll make a difference between 720p and 1080i? And if i could get a 8ms or lower time on this tv i'd be so frickin happy lol.

langlest · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2006, 04:41:00 AM »

alot of it will depent on the quality of the screen, i had a 8ms LG & noticed some ghosting & blur but i returned it for a 8ms Samsung & now i dont get either

infamous_Q · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2006, 09:28:00 AM »

hmm...well i've been testing it out too. It seems like the most ghosting is during Perfect Dark Zero, when i swing the character around. But i'm not sure if thats just an effect the game has, because the ghosting actually seems to be a little in front of the gun.....and also because the Call of Duty demo (also an fps) gets no ghosting when i turn the person around rapidly, i also barely noticed it on the lost planet demo, pgr3 i figured its just speed blur, fight night round 3 i see a little bit (just barely barely barely noticeble), and i don't have any other fast paced games yet. I'm gonna try the battlefield 2 demo and see how that goes...
I really like this tv though damnit..it'd be a shame to take it back cuz it had a bad response time :S but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

langlest · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2006, 09:38:00 AM »

thats part of the game in PD0 so dont worry about that, FNR3 also has blur as standard

lowendfrequency · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2006, 11:28:00 AM »

An acceptable response time will be entirely dependant on how honest the company is that is performing the tests. An honest test is from black to white, although most companies will test grey-to-grey to cheat and be able to report lower response times.

That being said, 60fps is the equivalent of a repsonse time of about 17ms. If your TV truly has a 16ms reponse time, then there is no way you'd ever be able to see any ghosting. I'm guessing you're just seeing some elements of PD0 in there. COD2 gets much better framerates than PD0, so if you don't see it in COD2 then you should be fine.

twistedsymphony · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2006, 01:59:00 PM »

right responce times are either "grey to grey" or "full on full off"

GTG gives abnormally high numbers while FOFO is very accurate of what you'd see in use.

for FOFO 16ms is good enough to get rid of ghosting at 30FPS and 12ms is good enough to get rid of it at 60FPS.

This post has been edited by twistedsymphony: May 22 2006, 09:00 PM

OEM · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2006, 02:53:00 AM »

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ May 22 2006, 07:30 PM)

right responce times are either "grey to grey" or "full on full off"

GTG gives abnormally high numbers while FOFO is very accurate of what you'd see in use.

for FOFO 16ms is good enough to get rid of ghosting at 30FPS and 12ms is good enough to get rid of it at 60FPS.

AFAIK it's not technically possible to produce a true 12ms LCD display. Also if the display turns full on/off 60 times per second you'd get the same refresh flicker as on CRT's. Ghosting is the price you pay for a flicker free display.

Me I've never seen any kind of LCD display without noticeable ghosting on fast moving objects, and it gives me a headache. For that reason I personally think LCD is useless for gaming.

langlest · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2006, 04:58:00 AM »

QUOTE(OEM @ May 23 2006, 09:24 AM)

AFAIK it's not technically possible to produce a true 12ms LCD display. Also if the display turns full on/off 60 times per second you'd get the same refresh flicker as on CRT's. Ghosting is the price you pay for a flicker free display.

Me I've never seen any kind of LCD display without noticeable ghosting on fast moving objects, and it gives me a headache. For that reason I personally think LCD is useless for gaming.

on saturday i got the SAMSUNG LE26R74BDX and its perfect for games! take a look at the specs
http://www.samsung.c...=Specifications
i havent noticed any blur or ghosting of any kind

OEM · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2006, 05:41:00 AM »

QUOTE(langlest @ May 23 2006, 11:05 AM)

i havent noticed any blur or ghosting of any kind

LCD ghosting/blur is kinda like the rainbow effect on DLP's. Not everyone is sensitive to it, but if you are it can be a real pain.

twistedsymphony · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2006, 06:28:00 AM »

QUOTE(OEM @ May 23 2006, 04:24 AM)

AFAIK it's not technically possible to produce a true 12ms LCD display. Also if the display turns full on/off 60 times per second you'd get the same refresh flicker as on CRT's. Ghosting is the price you pay for a flicker free display.

Me I've never seen any kind of LCD display without noticeable ghosting on fast moving objects, and it gives me a headache. For that reason I personally think LCD is useless for gaming.

Full On Full Off has NOTHING to do with how the display works. It describes how the responce time was MEASURED.

You're basically saying that if you measure a TV with a string instead of a tapemeasure it's smaller. It has nothing to do with the display itself it's nothing more then a technique for quantifying an aspect of it.

Full On Full Off measures how long it takes for a pixel to go from pure white to pure black.
Grey to Grey measures how long it takes for a pixel to go from one shade of grey to the next shade of grey.

LCDs don't flicker and YES TRUE 12ms DO exist... the new a-si tech is capable produceing TRUE 8ms (as measured by the FOFO techinique)

lowendfrequency · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2006, 09:18:00 AM »

Just for reference, I have a TRUE 18ms response time LCD set and have never been able to see any ghosting. However, the ghosting is very noticable on the comparable Samsung sets that are listed as 8ms, because Samsung tests all of their LCD panels with a grey to grey test. So before anyone starts comparing monitors based on response time, make sure you know what type of test was performed.

While we're on the subject of honest tests, the same goes for contrast ratio. Higher contrast ratios don't always mean better contrast and darker blacks as most manufacturers would like you to believe. It simply shows the difference between the darkest and lightest intensity that the particular set can display. To achieve high ratios many manufacturers just crank the brightness to a level that is unwatchable. True contrast ratio tests are performed on pre-calibrated sets and give a much better idea of what the actual viewing experience will be like.

langlest · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2006, 12:22:00 PM »

QUOTE(OEM @ May 23 2006, 12:12 PM)

LCD ghosting/blur is kinda like the rainbow effect on DLP's. Not everyone is sensitive to it, but if you are it can be a real pain.

i could notice it a lot on my LG set, especially in FPS games. i was under the impression that all lcd's had some form of it untill i got my samsung

OEM · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2006, 06:08:00 PM »

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ May 23 2006, 12:35 PM)

Full On Full Off has NOTHING to do with how the display works. It describes how the responce time was MEASURED.

Uh yes, but we're talking about 60 fps here. When LCD pixels change from one brightness value to the next, response times that allow for 60 fps isn't necessarily enough to avoid blur, since the human eye will still detect the rising and falling values inbetween frames. You can turn of the backlighting during the rising/falling values, but then you'd get flicker...

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ May 23 2006, 12:35 PM)

LCDs don't flicker and YES TRUE 12ms DO exist... the new a-si tech is capable produceing TRUE 8ms (as measured by the FOFO techinique)

For the past five years people have been telling me "the next generation of LCD displays will have no visible ghosting/blur". I'll believe it when I see it.

Author Topic: Lcd Ghosting (Read 265 times)