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[celicagt1993]

QUOTE(CKwik240 @ Mar 21 2006, 10:08 AM)

Actually, I think what he is saying is that the 360 will plug into the HD-DVD accessory directly.  Then the HD-DVD accessory will output the video for both the 360 and the HD-DVD's over an HDMI cable.  In a way it's almost a stand alone, but the 360 would supply the GUI and remote interface(via remote control or game controller) for the HD-DVD accessory.

i could possibly see that, since what's i've heard is the output for the 360 is analog.  if this is the case, then the hddvd drive will probably cost more...  I really don't want to see that...  there again isn't MS suppose to want things to be easy?  who would really want to run 2 cables (usb and audio video) from the 360 to the drive, then run a cable from the drive to the tv?  wouldn't it be easier to run one usb cable to the 360?  i wonder if the av cable/port only does av or if it does some type of data?  with only 3 usb ports, and the one in the back suppost to be the wireless, then that would mean you would have to hook it up to the front.  I for one don't want that...  that's why i got wireless remotes so i don't have cables coming out of the front.

interesting side note, if this drive runns off usb, would it work with a computer???  might be a cheaper solution to HD-=DVD with computer if it's not another $500...  how about a price for this, what would you guys be willing to pay for the HDDVD drive?  I probably wouldn't pay more than $150....  correction, i would pay, but i woulnd't be happy for anything over $150

[Foe-hammer]

I'm guessing the 360's HD-DVD would be in the $200-$250 range.

[twistedsymphony]

1st - An MS phone jockey is the last source I would call official. I think more often then not Ms Cleo has a better idea of MS's upcoming product line then phone support does. If anything the page setup on Lik-Sangs website is better proof, but still not worth anything.

2nd - the AVIP port on the 360 flat out does not have digital signals present, There are jumpers to change the ports output into various formats (component, composite, s-video, scart, vga, etc.) all the possible combinations of jumpers have been tried and the console in it's current state does not output a digital signal AT ALL. This means that there either needs to be A. a hardware update, meaning only new versions of the console will be able to output in HDMI or B. the HDMI output will come directly from the HD-DVD drive, meaning no HDMI without it. There is a remote possibility that they could update the software on the encoder chip (not much is known about the chip) to include Digital output. I find it unlikely because if the chip was actually capable of digital output I believe MS would have it capable out of the box but disabled (by jumper configuration) until the cable was released.

3rd - having the HDMI output come from the DVD drive DOES NOT mean it's a complete stand alone player, the drive reads the content on the disc then passes it off to the Xbox to process it and actually generate the image, which would then pass it back to the DVD drive to where it would convert the data into the HDMI format before outputting.  I HIGHLY doubt you'll see the component cables go from the AVIP back into the HD-DVD drive, considering that would be an unsecured signal and even if it was a specialized cable there wouldn't be anything stopping you from hijacking that before the HDCP was added... I don't see it happening.

4th - I don't think you'll see this drive get used in PCs for a long long time (if ever). Official drivers will not be released because PCs currently don't offer HDCP protection. it's impossible with todays hardware AND software. Windows Vista will be the first and only OS to offer it, and even then you'll need an HDCP capable drive, video card and monitor to view these discs on a PC. By the time that stuff rolls out I'm sure they'll also have much cheaper HD-DVD drives purpose built for the PC. The only way you'd see the 360's drive on the PC is if someone wrote custom drivers for it. And we don't even have fully functional drivers for the last gen Xbox's DVD drive, By the time someone were to figure it out it'd be pretty useless as again the cheaper PC equivalents will probably already be available.

5th - I think Foe-Hammers price estimates are about correct, $200 - $250  (I would say possibly even $300) would seem to be the most appropriate price point for a drive like this. Considering the stand alone players will start at $500 the add-on drive + console would need to be competitive with that. Core+HD-DVD would place it at $200, they could easily excuse a higher price considering you get a whole console on top of that. Alternatively they could price match a 360+HD-DVD drive to the price of the PS3, which could put it anywhere depending on the PS3's price point. Based on the hardware involved I think the $200-$250 is the most plausible price point though.

6th -I think the HDMI cable will probably completely evaporate if HD-DVD follows Blu-Ray's lead and drops the HDCP requirement. http://slashdot.org/...6/03/16/2047251

I've been all for HD-DVD over Blu-Ray since I saw their initial specs, but since Blu-Ray has dropped the HDCP requirement they're getting my support, that is unless HD-DVD follows suit.

You can bet that MS wont bother increasing the cost of the HD-DVD drive, or spend the money rolling out an extra cable type to add digital support if they don't have to.

[thax]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Mar 21 2006, 05:16 PM)

3rd - having the HDMI output come from the DVD drive DOES NOT mean it's a complete stand alone player, the drive reads the content on the disc then passes it off to the Xbox to process it and actually generate the image, which would then pass it back to the DVD drive to where it would convert the data into the HDMI format before outputting.  I HIGHLY doubt you'll see the component cables go from the AVIP back into the HD-DVD drive, considering that would be an unsecured signal and even if it was a specialized cable there wouldn't be anything stopping you from hijacking that before the HDCP was added... I don't see it happening.

So do you think that the HD-DVD drive will be USB attached, then upload the compessed data from the drive to the console and download rendered video and finally output from the drive via HDMI?

[trey85stang]

the speculation in this thread is rediculous.   Why don't you guys just ask the magic 8-ball what M$ will do.

[Owtlaw333]

QUOTE(trey85stang @ Mar 21 2006, 08:51 PM)

the speculation in this thread is rediculous.   Why don't you guys just ask the magic 8-ball what M$ will do.

What would be the fun in that? It's called a discussion. It's what people do to entertain themselves when there's nothing else to do. Get over it.

And that thing about Sony dropping HDCP is still speculation to me. When it comes from Sony's mouth and the film industry, I'll believe it. But if it really does happen, you can bet on HD-DVD following suit. I don't see how they couldn't. They're already behind in popularity, and if they didn't do the same as BluRay, it would be the final nail (or all of them) in they're coffin. I too would like HD-DVD to win, but it's not lookin' too well. Although Sony seems to keep chokin', so we'll see.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(thax @ Mar 21 2006, 03:53 PM)

So do you think that the HD-DVD drive will be USB attached, then upload the compessed data from the drive to the console and download rendered video and finally output from the drive via HDMI?

I don't believe the signal will come out of the AV port in an analogue fashion and back out the drive in digital..

I question the bandwidth available through the USB ports for such a thing and I wouldn't put it past MS to somehow use the HDD's SATA port to connect the drive.

who knows though, they could have something up there sleeve in terms of the video encoders capabilities, really anything is possible these are just the theories of my magic 8 ball...  

[prankfurter]

the 400mb/s avialable to usb 2.0 should be more than enough to handle the HD video...

[thax]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Mar 22 2006, 03:35 PM)

I question the bandwidth available through the USB ports for such a thing and I wouldn't put it past MS to somehow use the HDD's SATA port to connect the drive.

Using the SATA port would be the best action, as using up the only available USB port really sucks. I also wonder about the USB bandwidth when you consider that the rear port is a single USB line with a limited bandwidth.

QUOTE(prankfurter @ Mar 22 2006, 04:06 PM)

the 400mb/s avialable to usb 2.0 should be more than enough to handle the HD video...

Maybe. Remember that is 40 MB, or 40 Megabytes per second for USB 2.0. This is the theoretical maximum capacity of the transmission, there is overhead which reduces this number. Then you need to consider that not only does the data have to go up to the console at 4.56 MB/s in a compressed form, it needs to come back to the HD/DVD player in a secured format which will be much larger than the original compressed format. HDMI has something like 625 MB/s bandwidth, which greatly dwarfs the available USB 2.0 capacity. This means if MS uses USB it will need to transport the digital signal back to the HD-DVD drive in a proprietary format and then re-encode it to transmit it via HDMI.

It would be much easier for MS if the HD-DVD accessory was pretty much a standalone player controlled by the x360. Output from the x360 would then be passed through the HD-DVD drive to reduce the number of hookups required. Don't be dissappointed if this is the case.