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[FooLiP]

until i have a PAL 360 in front of me i can't answer that.

but there's no reason why you won't be able to run in 576p

however it's going to look better in 720p, and most TV's that take 576p take 720p

[OEM]

It's 576p. And that totally sucks, because it means 50Hz screen refresh.

I've been trying to get my PAL Xbox 360 (got it yesterday) to output 480p, but no such luck yet. Tried a Japanese NTSC region 2 DVD, and it also displayed in 576p. In other words NTSC output is converted to PAL. I don't like this at all.

[ferrari_rulz_02]

QUOTE(OEM @ Dec 1 2005, 07:55 PM)

It's 576p. And that totally sucks, because it means 50Hz screen refresh.

I've been trying to get my PAL Xbox 360 (got it yesterday) to output 480p, but no such luck yet. Tried a Japanese NTSC region 2 DVD, and it also displayed in 576p. In other words NTSC output is converted to PAL. I don't like this at all.

i dont liek taht at all.

what sort of cables are you using?

surley there has to be a way to get it into anotehr display mode. i cant belive it if m$ hass butt fucked the PAL nations of this world AGAIN.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(corkinator @ Dec 1 2005, 06:41 AM)

Don't know too much about this stuff, but wouldn't you prefer 576p because it's a higher res?!

yeah... Refresh rates only really matter on CRTs.
 DLPs, LCDs, Plasmas, etc. "fade" from one frame to the next so there's no flicker effect from a slow refresh rate.

[ferrari_rulz_02]

QUOTE(FooLiP @ Dec 2 2005, 12:03 AM)

this isn't MS screwing people, these are standards, it would be worse if MS invented new display standards.

thanks for the detailed explanition, but i think m$ is screwing us because i dont think they will let us PAL people access to 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

[OEM]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Dec 1 2005, 01:31 PM)

yeah... Refresh rates only really matter on CRTs.
 DLPs, LCDs, Plasmas, etc. "fade" from one frame to the next so there's no flicker effect from a slow refresh rate.

50Hz is a far bigger problem than just the flickering. 50Hz means the max possible framerate in games is 50fps, down from 60fps. Even worse since 95% of all games use vsynch to keep the framerate locked, games that are locked at 30fps will only play at 25fps in 50Hz. This is a noticeable difference. PAL games just don't play smoothly in 50Hz.

Also most games use the refresh rate to control the ingame speed (an object moves from a to b using a set number of frames). Unless the PAL version is optimized for the lower refresh, the game plays noticeably slower. Add to this that sometimes the PAL version haven't even been optimized for the increased resolution (big black borders on top and bottom of the screen and characters that look short and fat) and maybe you'll understand better why 50Hz is so detested among European gamers...

And no true gamer play games on anything other than CRT's anyway

[corkinator]

QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Dec 2 2005, 12:00 AM)

thanks for the detailed explanition, but i think m$ is screwing us because i dont think they will let us PAL people access to 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

I think 720p and 1080i should be available, I just don't know about 480p.

I haven't seen even one TV in Australia that claims to be 480p. I've only seen 576p on it's own, or 576p/720p/1080i etc.

As long as it works in 567p for me, I'd be happy. That's what my tv does anyway (it also runs Xbox 1 games in 480p... so who knows with the 360). Any higher res, I'd just use the vga adapter and my monitor for.

[ferrari_rulz_02]

QUOTE(corkinator @ Dec 2 2005, 03:00 PM)

I think 720p and 1080i should be available, I just don't know about 480p.

I haven't seen even one TV in Australia that claims to be 480p. I've only seen 576p on it's own, or 576p/720p/1080i etc.

As long as it works in 567p for me, I'd be happy. That's what my tv does anyway (it also runs Xbox 1 games in 480p... so who knows with the 360). Any higher res, I'd just use the vga adapter and my monitor for.

yeah, you wont find a tv in aus that is 480p.

i really would like to see if someone with a pal 360 can get 720p / 1080i to work. i think it should.

but i will most likely be using the vga adapter, as i dont have a high-def tv. but i know a few mates who have nice lcd's, and they will be pisses if tehy can play in 720p/1080i

[Joergen]

Please somebody with a PAL unit try to CONFIRM if there are 50 and 60hz modes available for 720p.

It would be total murder to have to run them at 50hz so you get 25fps instead of 30 in games like PGR3 which is a considerable drop in the frame rate when you have so few to work with.

Logic would say the PAL games have to support 60hz for VGA since 50hz high VGA modes dont exist. But as always developers are thick as a bricks and dont know to even add 25/30fps intro videos into their games to keep them from stuttering.  

[redwolf]

noone in Europe can confirm ANY HD support  


( i guess you'll too busy playing to come to the forums )

[ferrari_rulz_02]

QUOTE(Joergen @ Dec 3 2005, 02:05 AM)

Please somebody with a PAL unit try to CONFIRM if there are 50 and 60hz modes available for 720p.

i think you will find that 720p and 1080i are both NTSC standards,a nd thus they are only avialble in 60hz

[ShadowElitePro]

Maybe M$ hates the UK I feel sorry for you guys.  

[ferrari_rulz_02]

QUOTE(fahrenheit @ Dec 3 2005, 02:03 PM)

720p and 1080i are reported fine at 60Hz. I believe it is those with EDTV's that only do 480p that will be screwed over.

well they are only getting screwed over becuase they dont have a hd tv. from what i have found (usign a pc monitor), normal composite tv looks far better then 480p

QUOTE(ShadowElitePro @ Dec 3 2005, 02:06 PM)

Maybe M$ hates the UK I feel sorry for you guys.  

hey, its not only the UK. Australia and a lot of other countrys are PAL.

[Joergen]

First, all former dutch, french and UK imperial colonies are PAL, so that includes all of africa, middle-east, india and china. Its due to the hz of the power grid (which is how the CRT was timed and synced). edit: forgot Russia with MESECAM-2 which is 50hz (which they used so people couldnt watch western programming, which they said  was mere staged propaganda and there was actually no wealth or food in the west) but who cares about them.

North and South america and Japan are NTSC (due to the US invasion of Japan in the pacific war).

Secondly, there are nearly 10 HDTV channels available in europe via satellite and cable (still picking up) that broadcast in 50hz, this includes 720p and 1080i. Though I SO wish they didnt because we need a common standard now that the switch to HD is happening. There is no need for 50hz for modern display technologies. Having 50hz will just yield YET AGAIN lazy-assed blurry conversions of 60hz mastered material esp. with non-film material like sporting events.

And HD specs are NOT NTSC since they do not use the NTSC color system but RGB via MPEG2 TS. Only an interlaced RF and Video composite carries NTSC. In fact S-Video isnt NTSC either. So there  

The trade-off for a little more flicker for PAL is quite alot more vertical scanlines (makes for a tangibly higher resolution even on a 28" CRT) and easier telecine (just speed up movies of 24fps to 25fps, "progressive scan" since day one). And the CRT was invented by Dr. Hermann Braun.

But yes I've been confirmed that the PAL games are in 60hz for all HD modes and in fact they seem to lack 50hz (25fps) synced videos so playing at 576i has stuttering videos (developers will never learn, but now they dont have to any more when im concerned).

Happy HD days!  

[fahrenheit]

Be careful what you wish for Corkinator

What is the price to pay for that extra resolution you covert? Well 576p is 50Hz only and most games will be made and optimised for 60Hz. So it comes down to the hardware's ability to convert standards. Don't expect perfect results. And then there are question of system-link and Live between 50 and 60Hz gamers.

Another reason to stick to HD I guess.