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[Carlo210]

QUOTE(Skin_M @ Feb 7 2006, 05:31 PM)

Sorry bro, but shooting someone with a high calibre rifle in the head would most definitely make their head snap back.  Simple laws of physics.  They might not fall on their backs...but their head and body wouldn't just fall straight forward like they do in the video.

Deftech...could you confirm?

Sure, their heads get affected, but not 'thrown back' or anything close as the poster said. Being hit in the arm with a stick makes you flinsh, but that doesn't mean the force of the stick made your arm move that much. When shot in the shoulder with a sniper rifle, you may cock it back due to reaction, but the bullet itself did not push your arm. Getting shot with a big bullet to the head will affect your head, just as if you throw a metal ball to a hanging slab of 2" thick wood, but no person can make that slab of 2" thick wood swing and hit the ceiling. That is my point. Simple laws of physics.
Also, a bullet penetrates. If you throw a metal ball to a 4" thick slab of settled jello, you won't be moving it at all. Sorry to break it to you, but the human body isn't the most penetration-resistant object.

Edit: To further support me, this has been put to the test by professionals.

[ikecomp]

Yeah Carlo is right. I know people see how the bodies react in halo, PDZ and other varous games when they are shot with a sniper rifle or shotgun but thats not a real life representation.  When you are shot with a bullet strong enough to kill you, you will generally fall to the ground. You won't be thrown to the ground. It takes quite a bit of force to throw a human body even a small distance. Let alone a man who is heavily armed with guns and supplies like most of the combatants in GRAW

[Carlo210]

At least the death animations aren't as bad as in Socom 2. If an enemy is in prone position and you snipe their head with a sniper rifle, they roll over onto their back and die.

[ikecomp]

QUOTE(Skin_M @ Feb 7 2006, 11:12 AM)

I think the game looks great, but does anyone think the body dynamics are a bit poor?  I mean, the way people are shot and the way they die when they are shot don't look realistic.  They kind of just fall to the ground even when they get shot in the head.  Getting shot in the head, you would think their head would be thrown back and they'd fall backwards violently.  I hope they work on that a bit.

This is exactly what you said initially. All I was saying is that your body will not have the type of reaction that is highlighted in the bold letters. This is what my statement was in response to. I agree that your head will have a slight response to a high velocity object penetrating it but this would not make your body "fall backwards violently"

[ikecomp]

GIT ER DONE Ubisoft!!

[VariableElite]

As long as the animations are better than GTA:SA, I'm cool.

In that game, if you blow up a vehicle with occupants, they open the door, climb out of the wreckage, shut the door, then fall down.  

[tommyphat]

But JFK was shot from behind remember?!?!?!?!  Which goes to show that the opposite of what you think will happen, will actually happen.

[Deftech]

its simple physics...

the reaction on the receiving end can only be as strong as what happens when you pull the trigger.

for someone to be thrown back by a bullet hitting them, it would have 2 knock the shooter on his ass as well.

look for sniper videos, real ones... head shots. They all react different, just as an animal does. Shoot an elk broadside in the vitals and it may run a mile. Hit another elk in the same exact spot and it could drop instantly.

As far as the head jerking around violently from impact alone, it doesnt happen.

I have seen a guy shot in iraq in the back of the head by a .50 and his head went forward(what was left of it), but his whole body took like 6 shots within 2 seconds so there was a lot of energy hitting his body. a .50 puts out around 12,000 ft lbs with a 700 grain bullet, x 6 on the guys body...do the math.

In comparison, a 7.62 nato round (.308win) has around 2,800 ft lbs, and thats what the sniper rifles in recon depict(if its realistic).

Now shoot a .50 standing up, and it will definitely jerk your shoulder back reeeeeal good It would do the same to someone on the receiving end, for the most part, but not any type of a violent toss like Hollywood depicts   I cant stand that fake shit.

EDIT: it also depends on the ammo used. a FMJ will zip thru the target a lot easier, where as a soft point/hollowpiint match will mushroom more and put more a of a *push* on the object. JFK was shot with a .308, and it obviously hit him in a way where it caught some skull and the skull acted as a wall and allowed the energy from the bullet to transfer differently than normal. Quite a few variables indeed. If the shooter wanted good mushrooming, he used a hollowpoint match, it would insure a lot of damage, and they are the most accurate of the loads he had available.

You all saw pics of the bowling ball I shot with my .308 at 100 yards. It barely moved when i shot it. If I had used a HP match, it would have moved more instead of the FMJ I used that zipped right thru it. I love running ballistics tests Id like to try on Kenny K, the worthless waste of skin!  

[Deftech]

QUOTE(Skin_M @ Feb 7 2006, 06:43 PM)

Wow, thanks for that Deftech.  I'll ask you, don't you think the body mechanics in the game look a bit fake?

I dont really know how 2 respond. They fall like Id expect them to in a videogame, I guess. The way someone falls in a game after having their life expired means nothing to me. Its how they move when they are alive that I care about. How characters collapse has never been a priority for me. I care more about AA, resolutions, shadows/lighting, and ruining the life of Kenny K.

[Carlo210]

QUOTE(Deftech @ Feb 7 2006, 11:58 PM)

its simple physics...

the reaction on the receiving end can only be as strong as what happens when you pull the trigger.

for someone to be thrown back by a bullet hitting them, it would have 2 knock the shooter on his ass as well.

look for sniper videos, real ones... head shots. They all react different, just as an animal does. Shoot an elk broadside in the vitals and it may run a mile. Hit another elk in the same exact spot and it could drop instantly.

As far as the head jerking around violently from impact alone, it doesnt happen.

I have seen a guy shot in iraq in the back of the head by a .50 and his head went forward(what was left of it), but his whole body took like 6 shots within 2 seconds so there was a lot of energy hitting his body. a .50 puts out around 12,000 ft lbs with a 700 grain bullet, x 6 on the guys body...do the math.

In comparison, a 7.62 nato round (.308win) has around 2,800 ft lbs, and thats what the sniper rifles in recon depict(if its realistic).

Now shoot a .50 standing up, and it will definitely jerk your shoulder back reeeeeal good It would do the same to someone on the receiving end, for the most part, but not any type of a violent toss like Hollywood depicts   I cant stand that fake shit.

EDIT: it also depends on the ammo used. a FMJ will zip thru the target a lot easier, where as a soft point/hollowpiint match will mushroom more and put more a of a *push* on the object. JFK was shot with a .308, and it obviously hit him in a way where it caught some skull and the skull acted as a wall and allowed the energy from the bullet to transfer differently than normal. Quite a few variables indeed. If the shooter wanted good mushrooming, he used a hollowpoint match, it would insure a lot of damage, and they are the most accurate of the loads he had available.

You all saw pics of the bowling ball I shot with my .308 at 100 yards. It barely moved when i shot it. If I had used a HP match, it would have moved more instead of the FMJ I used that zipped right thru it. I love running ballistics tests Id like to try on Kenny K, the worthless waste of skin!  

Yay, someone else on my side! By the way, guys, this is all proven in Mythbusters.

[shodanjr_gr]

QUOTE(Deftech @ Feb 8 2006, 12:58 AM)

its simple physics...

the reaction on the receiving end can only be as strong as what happens when you pull the trigger.

for someone to be thrown back by a bullet hitting them, it would have 2 knock the shooter on his ass as well.

look for sniper videos, real ones... head shots. They all react different, just as an animal does. Shoot an elk broadside in the vitals and it may run a mile. Hit another elk in the same exact spot and it could drop instantly.

As far as the head jerking around violently from impact alone, it doesnt happen.

I have seen a guy shot in iraq in the back of the head by a .50 and his head went forward(what was left of it), but his whole body took like 6 shots within 2 seconds so there was a lot of energy hitting his body. a .50 puts out around 12,000 ft lbs with a 700 grain bullet, x 6 on the guys body...do the math.

In comparison, a 7.62 nato round (.308win) has around 2,800 ft lbs, and thats what the sniper rifles in recon depict(if its realistic).

Now shoot a .50 standing up, and it will definitely jerk your shoulder back reeeeeal good It would do the same to someone on the receiving end, for the most part, but not any type of a violent toss like Hollywood depicts   I cant stand that fake shit.

EDIT: it also depends on the ammo used. a FMJ will zip thru the target a lot easier, where as a soft point/hollowpiint match will mushroom more and put more a of a *push* on the object. JFK was shot with a .308, and it obviously hit him in a way where it caught some skull and the skull acted as a wall and allowed the energy from the bullet to transfer differently than normal. Quite a few variables indeed. If the shooter wanted good mushrooming, he used a hollowpoint match, it would insure a lot of damage, and they are the most accurate of the loads he had available.

You all saw pics of the bowling ball I shot with my .308 at 100 yards. It barely moved when i shot it. If I had used a HP match, it would have moved more instead of the FMJ I used that zipped right thru it. I love running ballistics tests Id like to try on Kenny K, the worthless waste of skin!  

And if anyone ever needs further proof that Def knows his shit about guns, there is always that picture with him and an amount of weapons large enough to overthrow a dictator with...

[Deftech]

lets not mention that, it just scares people  

my prof pic is dead

[shodanjr_gr]

Hehehehehe true...

Oh, and on the topic of body dynamics...i must say i am a bit torn...The animation themselves look fine to me, but i never say no to ragdoll physics (as long as they are properly implemented ofcourse - hear that perfect dark zero / fight night 3 demo?).

For the moment though ill go with scripted animations. More fluid and more cinematic...

cant wait for the game to come out. Really, March just cant come soon enough!!

[Carlo210]

The thing I ahte about scripted animations is that the enemy doesn't look dead right away. I mean, if he's crouching (60% of GR), and you shoot them and kill them, they lose consciousness and topple in 2 seconds.
In Halo, for example, I know when someone's dead when they fall down or flip over (battle rifle headshot), but with scripted animations, the fact that the enemy is dead doesn't come across until they go 'Plop!'.

[cjd70510]

I was always more of a Rainbow Six guy more than Ghost Recon, but this game will most definately be in my collection ASAP!!  That multiplayer video is amazing......AND that is only multiplayer, not single player (although I will probably be online a lot)  I hope to see some of you people online. Play Hard!