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[m_hael]

from what I read the choice was simple... have the soft shadows on everything and play @ "insert LOW number here" fps or have soft shadows on "some" things and play @ "insert number deemed acceptable by bethesda here" fps

optimising is what they've been doing for a long time over there, I informed you guys a while ago that the game is done but it doesn't run fast enough... I guess they decided to remove this in order to achieve their desired fps.

if soft shadows or not decides whether you buy a game or not they the games industry really has created monsters by whoring out graphics as a replacement for gameplay.

personally I'm gameplay all the way and if you can put fancy gfx in there at the same time do so... I would always sacrifice gfx over gamplay without even a thought for the gfx whores.

/0.02


<note - my comments do not reflect the opinions of anyone but me>

[Mick Garvey]

Shouldnt the Xbox 360 be able to handle MORE than that? I mean if its truely next gen, seriously even those pics with the shadowing dont look NEXT GEN to me...

[m_hael]

what a system can handle depends entirely upon the way it is used... shadowing is a VERY expensive operation which requires intensive CPU & GPU rountines, soft shadowing adds an expensive extra stage. Combine this with supposed extremely good AI (you have no clue how often people are fooled by CRAP AI hidden by set piece fakery) and you have a game that uses just TOO much power.... in this case the game was written for pc to boot so is NOT designed around the 360 and thus gets limited.

as to whether they have to make the game look the same on ALL platforms I don't know... I would imagine its within their interests to do so but its not always the case.

btw - what is next gen... its a term used all too often to describe what something is not rather than what something IS.

[shodanjr_gr]

I am really really sadened by this. When i saw the E3 vids, the first thing that made me go "WOW" was not the emperor's face or the lighting in the prison cell or the Radiant AI. It was the shadowing. The way the dev would throw that chain around and the shadow would shift with it...the way he would move the rib cage and it would cast its shadow, stretching on the wall etc. That was really something that i would classify as next generation.

I really wish that Bethesda leaves the option in at least for the 360 version ( i doubt that my PC can handle the soft shadowing)... but that probably is wishfull thinking.

[yaazz]

Well I would rather they just delay the game and make it work right, makes no difference wether I buy it in march or if I buy it in december

[m_hael]

wow - so callous...

there is no "work right" with a game engine, its an amorphorous blob of code that molds to the game and hardwares requirements.

[Master X]

QUOTE(rdeal @ Jan 30 2006, 01:52 PM)

this topic had me laughing my arse off.........just coz a couple of shadows are missing the game is no good?....so tell me what do they do that make the game so good with them? and we are talking just object shadows here something u would not even notice while playing

If you can't tell a difference in between the two pictures that ballz2thewallz posted in the first page then you are  blind.

I dont give a damn if this game has PS2/Xbox graphics im still buying it for the single player experience.

[KAGE360]

i truely cant believe so many people are turned off by this game now since there isnt shadows on EVERY little thing.  just because the shadowing is toned down does not mean it doesnt look great or "next gen" as most will say.  what other game throws this many shader effects at you with such a VAST and huge world to explore.  like someone said, you wouldnt be dissapointed if the original tech demo videos were never released, so just because you guys are spoiled with your expectations your not getting the game now?    

knowing that the early videos were only demonstrations of the technology used and not to be represented as the final game, i am surprised and impressed that they didnt take more effects out of the game.  to whoever commented about how they couldnt get it to run with crossfire and SLI modes, they are not the majority so they will not be taken advantage of.  that is why i see little point in SLI and crossfire solutions other then higher frame rates and resolutions with all effects on, does anyone really expect that kind of power to be taken advantage of when its not the norm?  

some things should be clear from what M_hael has said.  it should have been expected that something be taken out because i do remember M_hael mentioning speaking with the team and they needed to cut something back because of performance issues, this was said around launch time when oblivion first got delayed (even though no release date was confirmed to begin with).  also since it is true that this game was designed for the PC and not the 360, it is most likely the PC that is limiting what effects are used.  so this should not be a reflection to the 360's power as it is limited from the game design choice.  

its easy to be a spoiled graphics whore, that is why we all got next gen hardware from day one.  however it should mean more to what the game truely is, then what meaningless little crap it is not.  to bitch about something that you wouldnt even pay attention to after a day's worth of playing is stupid IMO, especially since this game is still leagues above anything out today.

[metaldevil]

QUOTE(m_hael @ Jan 30 2006, 02:01 AM)

from what I read the choice was simple... have the soft shadows on everything and play @ "insert LOW number here" fps or have soft shadows on "some" things and play @ "insert number deemed acceptable by bethesda here" fps

if soft shadows or not decides whether you buy a game or not they the games industry really has created monsters by whoring out graphics as a replacement for gameplay.

personally I'm gameplay all the way and if you can put fancy gfx in there at the same time do so... I would always sacrifice gfx over gamplay without even a thought for the gfx whores.

I'm in total agreement with you.

[miggidy]

One time I went to a night game and the shadows seemed a lot bolder for what ever reason.
A few days later went to a day game, and boy was I disappointed
You could barely see the shadows on the players and through out the field, they were there but not as intense during a night game.
So what did I do? I went to the ticket box and requested a refund.

@$$holes! They looked at me funny at first and they thought I was joking until I hit the ticket guy in his face with a Cracker Jack box!


I feel your pain man, I really do

[m_hael]

something else that should be mentioned is that those screenshots have a LOT more than shadows turned off.... its lost


soft shadows
shadows at ALL
normal mapping
specular mapping


all these add to the realise and contrast and its REALLY obvious when they are not there.

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(davinator456 @ Jan 30 2006, 12:49 PM)

where do u get this information? i looked at TES websight no info there

you dont need confirmation on any site to see that the shadows are being cut down a little, atleast on inanimate objects.  just watch the early technology demos and then watch some of the more resent ones.

[pennywisdom]

QUOTE(davinator456 @ Jan 30 2006, 12:49 PM)

where do u get this information? i looked at TES websight no info there

they never post anything good on the front page, they never even officially recognized any delay as they never set a date in the first place...

for all the good news you have to go into their forums. people are talking about the shadows like crazy in there.

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(m_hael @ Jan 30 2006, 01:28 PM)

something else that should be mentioned is that those screenshots have a LOT more than shadows turned off.... its lost
soft shadows
shadows at ALL
normal mapping
specular mapping
all these add to the realise and contrast and its REALLY obvious when they are not there.

i see it now that i compare the two pics, but your opening a can of worms by pointing that out in this topic  

[ikecomp]

I must say I agree with the people who are complaining. If you can't do it don't advertise it.