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Author Topic: What The Hell?  (Read 742 times)

m_hael

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What The Hell?
« Reply #180 on: February 19, 2006, 10:45:00 PM »

didn't anyone tell ya kage... next gen == film... looks nice but don't expect any gameplay.

graphics whores are a pain in the ass, they tend to favour beauty over content yet lament the times when gameplay was king and complain that games don't offer as much of a distraction as they used to ... then get right back onto calling the latest greatest "game" crap because it doesn't  have wopsiflop filtering or dustbuster shadowing...


 dry.gif
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Ozy

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« Reply #181 on: February 20, 2006, 04:03:00 AM »

QUOTE(m_hael @ Feb 20 2006, 05:52 AM) View Post

 ... then get right back onto calling the latest greatest "game" crap because it doesn't  have wopsiflop filtering or dustbuster shadowing...
 dry.gif


LOL!  rotfl.gif
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KAGE360

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« Reply #182 on: February 20, 2006, 05:32:00 AM »

QUOTE(m_hael @ Feb 20 2006, 12:52 AM) View Post

didn't anyone tell ya kage... next gen == film... looks nice but don't expect any gameplay.

graphics whores are a pain in the ass, they tend to favour beauty over content yet lament the times when gameplay was king and complain that games don't offer as much of a distraction as they used to ... then get right back onto calling the latest greatest "game" crap because it doesn't  have wopsiflop filtering or dustbuster shadowing...
 dry.gif


lol  laugh.gif

to true.  even though i will admit to be a graphics whore as well (think its safe to say majority of those who pick up a 360 at/ around launch are graphic whores to some extent), its hardly what i base the game on.  that is why i believe that oblivion will be far more "next gen" and even visually impressive then games like FNR3, where instead of a vast world to render and compute they only have to concentrate on two fighters which isnt even that impressive when you consider how static the backgrounds are.
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shaddix

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« Reply #183 on: February 20, 2006, 06:39:00 AM »

QUOTE(Ballz2TheWallz @ Feb 13 2006, 12:00 AM) View Post

i would...but apparently bethsada wont release any? wonder why



hahaha this is the best post in this thread, he has to be joking at this point, there's no way he's seriously saying this hahahha this is great
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Ozy

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« Reply #184 on: February 20, 2006, 06:40:00 AM »

QUOTE(shaddix @ Feb 20 2006, 01:46 PM) View Post

hahaha this is the best post in this thread, he has to be joking at this point, there's no way he's seriously saying this hahahha this is great


He's gone now.
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shaddix

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« Reply #185 on: February 20, 2006, 07:09:00 AM »

QUOTE(Ozy @ Feb 20 2006, 02:47 PM) View Post

He's gone now.


well damn, i would like to see him reply to the screens being revealed they are actually pc =(
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KAGE360

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« Reply #186 on: February 20, 2006, 07:34:00 AM »

QUOTE(shaddix @ Feb 20 2006, 09:16 AM) View Post

well damn, i would like to see him reply to the screens being revealed they are actually pc =(


that doesnt matter as we all know how futile and stupid this whole topic was.  a game sucking because small inanimate objects dont cast a shadow is just stupid.  im sure he is only suspended and not totally banned and if he wishes he can reply when he returns, however i wouldnt expect him to acknowledge how dumb this whole debate is.  first he complained about lack of shadows, then lack of AA and AF, then how he is going to upgrade his PC so that he can play the game at the highest graphical level and the 360 is looking like crap.  it is almost like he is trying to find excuses not to like the game, however i said it before that if he really wanted the game that bad to be that dissapointed then these small alterations shouldnt effect his decision.  

the thing i find most humerous is that when there are cut-backs being made people automatically point the finger to the 360 and its "lack of power" when the system is barely starting its first generation of games which are just now starting to scratch the surface of what this thing can do.
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lowendfrequency

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« Reply #187 on: February 20, 2006, 10:11:00 AM »

Oh what a humorous turn of events  laugh.gif


I am an admitted graphics whore and have a degree in Computer Art & Design with my study focused on 3D design and animation...  and I must say that I am still very much impressed with the graphics in Oblivion.  I would definately describe it as next gen.  I'm purchasing this game for much more than the eye candy, but I can garauntee I'll spend hours and hours just walking around and drooling over the visuals.
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KAGE360

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« Reply #188 on: February 20, 2006, 12:41:00 PM »

QUOTE(scooby_dooby @ Feb 20 2006, 02:00 PM) View Post

I'm talking GFX, period. GOW, Blue Dragon, Slinter Cell 4, Ghost Recon, Forza 2, Too Human, Mass Effect, Lost Planet are all going to much much better looking than oblivion.

Bottom line it, a year ago these gfx were droll worthy, now their merely 'good'. You're really agreeing with me, as the latter half of my post is all about how the expansiveness of Oblivion outweighs the fact the GFX will not be that cutting edge.

edit: whoops I just realized I had a major typo in my first post, forgot the word graphically:
"agreed. Oblivion is not going to be one of the most impressive games of 2006 graphically, anyone who honsestly thinks so is fooling themselves."

I meant it won't be one of the most graphically impressive games, however it WILL be one of the most impressive games overall.


i understood everything your saying but your missing my point.  like i explained to you in the other topic, the expansiveness of oblivion doesnt just outweigh the graphics but they play a key role in the graphics.  you can not compare ANY of those games you listed because the size of the scene being loaded is a fraction to the size of oblivion's world.  if oblivion was cut off into sections that were equal to the size of average GoW or Ghost recon level then it would be far easier to reach the same level of graphical quality in those same games.  however you would have to deal with load screens between these sections which would defeat the purpose of oblivion's huge seamless world.  this is the same reason that M_hael pointed out that when all things are considered, the graphics of FNR3 really arent that impressive.
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Ozy

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« Reply #189 on: February 20, 2006, 01:28:00 PM »

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Feb 20 2006, 02:41 PM) View Post

 im sure he is only suspended and not totally banned and if he wishes he can reply when he returns, however i wouldnt expect him to acknowledge how dumb this whole debate is.  


No...I think he is banned. I've been suspended before and I didn't get the XS-Banned sign on my profile. If you really piss of the mods or breach the TOS then you go in the 'last chance club'.
Ballz has got the outright ban. Perhaps he screwed a mods Mum up the ass or something, I don't know. but he wouldn't have got banned for this thread. It is something else I'm sure, something he shouldn't have said or done.

I support the theory that there are some mods that move through the forums like ghosts deleting threads they don't like or moving about posts. Then again I could be having paranoid delusions and should shut up now before I get banned. sleep.gif
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m_hael

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« Reply #190 on: February 20, 2006, 02:53:00 PM »

look at FN3 again... now lets analyse those graphics....

2 characters taking up maybe 40% of the screen during normal gameply (40% MAX)... the other 60% of the screen is blurred and BAD consisting mainly of ads and low poly geo.

granted those characters do represent some of the most complex rendering yet to hit the screen, but contrasted against shit background it sticks out like bad CG thus reducing the whole effect to crap.

this is just my opinion but in this game the developers seem to have forgot that a game is the some of its parts and not a part of its sum.
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KAGE360

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« Reply #191 on: February 20, 2006, 05:27:00 PM »

QUOTE
And like it or not, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the square footage of teh game, or how expansive it is or anything.


QUOTE
it has nothign to do with that and that's just a cop-out. It's because oblivion was started back in 2003, over 3 years ago, in addition the game itself is so MASSIVE that they can't possibly reach the same graphical level as other smaller console exclusive games, even if it WAS a exclusive. Which it's not, it's a PC game developed concurrently, which again will contribute to the GFX being less than they could be.

All that does not change the fact that Oblivion will not even be close to the most graphically impressive game next year. Which is completely understandable given the size and scope of the gameas I've always said.


at first your saying that the square footage has nothing to do with the graphics, but then at the end of your post you point out that because the game is so massive it cant possibly reach the same graphical level of console games containing smaller levels.  

also about oblivion development starting over 3 years ago doesnt change the fact that its still running on a next gen engine that many future next gen titles will be using.  most games of that size from concept to final code will take multiple years.  

QUOTE
By your definition, GTA SA was the most 'graphically impressive' game last generation. Do you realize how as-backwards thgat is? The most impressive graphics on XBOX was a game called Splinter Cell 3 with like 12 levels that probably spanned all of .1 sq miles.

THe GRAPHICS of FN3 are superior to the GRAPHICS of oblivion. The fact that there are more of something, or that you are existing in a bigger world, does not make the graphics suddenly more impressive! It simply makes the game itself more impressive.

By your definition, a text-based game with 8000hours of gameplay and 500sq miles of land to explore would be the most 'graphically impressive' ever released. lol


never have i said that GTA was the most impressive game of the last generation, in fact it looks like ass IMO.  however if GTA was cut into 12 levels the same size of those in splinter cell, then i can promise you it would look a whole lot better.  you point out how splinter cell was the most graphically impressive game on the xbox, very true, however if all of the levels in splinter cell were grouped together in a massive stage the size of the island of morrowind, then it would look horrible compared to how it currently looks.  

of course the graphics in FNR3 "look" better then those in oblivion but that is not to say that they are more impressive.  you can not compare a scene with only two main character with controlled lower detailed environments to a huge sprawling out door scene with a huge forest to render (not counting other characters, animals, monsters, etc.).  the fact that there is more of something, or that you are existing in a bigger world, does make the graphics more impressive if you can keep a level of graphical quality throughout the entire game at a high level.  and again just because a game contains 8000 hours and is 500sq miles doesnt make the graphics impressive at all, its how the game looks being that big that is the impressive part.  to compare FNR3 and oblivion on an even scale would be to imply that FNR3 level of graphics is possible on an oblivion type game, it is not and wont be, not in this coming generation atleast.  

if size makes no difference on the graphics then why doesnt all the splinter cells have each level connected (where possible)?  because its not possible, that is what is taking place during the load screen.  textures, shaders, polys, the graphics are being re-loaded into every new level and since a much smaller area is only being loaded the system can concentrate more GPU resources to only that level.  that is why "sand-box" type games always look sub-par compared to games that have a more linear and controlled architecture.  the single levels in splinter cell dont have to shair the resources of GPU with a 16 mile world like they do in oblivion.  its quite simple actually, the bigger the level/world/scene, the more you have to spread out your resources and power hence not being able to achieve the same level of detail since there is more of the world being rendered at once.

im not arguing with you and respect you enough not to flame, but you really arent understanding some things here and i only hope that someone else can come in and explain it to you differently then i.  maybe then you will understand why i believe that oblivion is so graphically impressive.
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Foe-hammer

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« Reply #192 on: February 20, 2006, 06:29:00 PM »

Bother you guys are saying the same thing, and both are right.  The character models in oblivion will look like poo compared to the character models in GoW or Halo3, but when you take the whole game into respect, the vastness of the world, then oblivions looks pretty damn good.

I too was not that impressed with FN3; the low poly, low texture res of the background stuck out to me like a sore thumb.  I'll take mike tyson's puchout on the NES anyday.
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scooby_dooby

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« Reply #193 on: February 20, 2006, 07:35:00 PM »

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Feb 21 2006, 01:34 AM) View Post

scooby, i think that you are contradicting yourself or your just not understanding me.  
at first your saying that the square footage has nothing to do with the graphics, but then at the end of your post you point out that because the game is so massive it cant possibly reach the same graphical level of console games containing smaller levels.  


Because you are assuming the the reason they cannot create these cutting edge graphics is because the system would be unable to render/stream them. The true reason, IMO, is art costs, budgets and timelines.

Even if you cut GTA up into chunks like SC, it could never look as good because GTA has about 10times more content, much much higher art requirements, and inevitably the GFX/art production will be scaled back to meet their budget and timeline. Look at Mercaneries for example, a great sandbox game and a great example of how a sandbox game with no load times CAN look just as impressive as most other titles, but mercenaries is a trade off, it has nowhere near the content of GTa or elder scrolls, and that's what allowed them to produce such impressive GFX.

The reason this game cannot have cutting edge graphics(or any other massive game) is because it so big, that the art costs, and the development time would absolutely sky rocket. That's the trade off that is made when you do such a huge game.

I'm sure that given 100million dollars, and 6-7 years development time, they could make such a huge world, with all bleeding edge graphics no problem, but in reality they only have 3-4years, a set budget, and they have to make it all work.

That means when designing 16 square miles worth of content, that content can't possibly be as detailed as a smaller game. It's just not feasible.

The other problem is when designing such a large title that has SUCH a long dev time, technology keeps progressing, and what started out 4 years ago as extremely impressive, gradually gets less and less so.

It's not a limitation of the console or hardware itself, but rather developer timelines and budget contraints.

Anwyays, I hear what you're saying and agree, GIVEN how large this world is, the graphic quality they've managed to pull off is extremely impressive, although, don't expect it to be taking home any best GFX for 06 awards! That's all I'm sayin...
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scooby_dooby

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« Reply #194 on: February 20, 2006, 07:48:00 PM »

QUOTE(m_hael @ Feb 20 2006, 11:00 PM) View Post

look at FN3 again... now lets analyse those graphics....

2 characters taking up maybe 40% of the screen during normal gameply (40% MAX)... the other 60% of the screen is blurred and BAD consisting mainly of ads and low poly geo.

granted those characters do represent some of the most complex rendering yet to hit the screen, but contrasted against shit background it sticks out like bad CG thus reducing the whole effect to crap.

this is just my opinion but in this game the developers seem to have forgot that a game is the some of its parts and not a part of its sum.


Looking at FN3 I see the best playable graphics ever created, so they deserve credit for that feat IMO.
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