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[LostIt]

That's suppose to make up for a > 90% loss in life span? That is ridiculous (if true.)

[m00nstone]

These types of issues are the main reason I have stayed away from the 360 since the early launch days where people were experiencing meltdowns.

Additionally, I'm concerned with the idea that the 360 cannot be downgraded to earlier firmware in order to deal with problems.  I'm sure this level of security is costing microsoft, and obviously 360 buyers, big time.

And ironically, the only thing this has accomplished is preventing people from running homebrew.

I guarantee you MS is regretting the efuse, while firmware modders happily play backups.

So... until I'm hearing better stability reports from the 360 scene, I'll continue to enjoy my 2 xboxs (one modded, one not), and my Wii.

[luther349]

my 360 works fine gets played often but its also a newer console set virtcel and has a fanstand. my 360 is cool to the touch even after hrs of play. my frends system over a year old has no stand and also works fine and played everyday alot. other frends system did die but was fixed and still works fine. we should have a poll on this to see how many people from xs has replaced there 360s and those that have had no problems. couse it is a fact people with broken systems or multi brakedowns tend to make more noise then people whos systems are fine.  by the amount we get thow it is to high relly you hardly ever hear abought broken orignal xboxes other then form the user messing it up from a botched mod job. so if the 360 failer rate is indded 3-5% then the orignal xbox rate was less then 1%.

the guy says it was a launch system and we all knoe alot of those where indded defectiv i relly dought any patch or game did it it just happond to fail at that time. most say we get only a small percent of xbox gamers but relly pretty mutch any xbox gamer i ever talked to on live or whatever knoe abought xs im pretty shure we got more then 50% of them looking at this site.

and yes i pay 400$ for anything i expect it to last for years hell i payed 50 bucks for my dreamcast and it still works fine other then needing some new av ables couse my tv doesent like using rca. my snes indded did die on me but it was after the n64 came out so i traded my huge stack of games in  and got a launch n64 for like 50 bucks lol and my n64 still works. my ps1 did die my ps2 did die. the point is i guess the 360 would not be the first time a system failed on me it does happon but in those days there not many large gaming sites like xs to vent on.

[grim_d]

just updated, played a few tunes, no issues.

[L337CH337]

Internet updates is no excuse for shoddy merchandise.

[feflicker]

My launch console died shortly after GOW came out. I didn't blame GOW. I think it just pushed the console to its breaking point, or it was just a coincidence (the timing). There is DEFINATELY something wrong with the launch 360's, that is why MS$ extended the warranty (they didn't just do it for $hits/grins). If you bought a console in the first 6-9 months, eventually, it is going to die (that is my honest opinion). EVERYONE I know that had a launch console has had at least (1) replacement (~6 people)...

That being said, some lucky bastard is going to post "i've had mine since launch, no problems, and so have my buddies". However, that doesn't change the fact that many people have had experiences like mine. I believe it to be FACT that the 360 has some issues with the CPU/GPU/MOBO dying, especially on the launch consoles...

[HSDEMONZ]

QUOTE(Roam @ Apr 15 2007, 03:28 PM)

They not only need a CPU temp monitor, they also should have something that monitors what kind of load the CPU's are under. I know with my computer sometimes a background program will freeze and the CPU will be under 100% load until I kill the process. How much stress can the Xbox 360 components take?

[OFF TOPIC]

I've got this problem now. A few errant programs, don't exit gracefully, and when they do that, it leave the system running 100% CPU load or close to it. Which is a problem for me atm.. as I'm working on making my system quiet without going the water cooling route, opting for quiet fans, reduced fans, and larger heatsinks to dissipate heat. when this happened to the PC.. I went from 35 degrees celcius to 74+ and came home to find it had more or less choked, becoming unstable. (I'll never know how hot it got, as the software monitoring temps on the PC was likely no longer updating the screen properly either)

[/OFF TOPIC]

One thing I wan't people to understand, is that my views are simply that.. my views. however, they are based on my growing experiences. I personally view just about all major electronics manufacturers as crooks and con artists. Few, put their money where their mouth is anymore. Quality just isn't what it used to be. For every guy that can come into this thread and tell us a story how all of his recent stuff from the last 5 years still works great, we can find another who will damn his sotries, ans give us the opposite of how his such and such died prematurely and unexpectedly without abuse or modification having been a factor.

I have no doubt whatsoever, I can go out tomorrow, buy say.. a Samsung HD DVD set top player, and enjoy it. It'll probably last 2 years. maybe a bit longer. but there is no way it'll survive regular usuage and be working on it's 10th birthday. I can make the same guarantee if I bought some higher end hardware too. While all of this tech has become more advanced, and techniques in manufacturing have produced incredible innovation, it seems that a sacrifice to the longevity of the hardware goes hand in hand with the new toys we're presented with.

i'll still buy all the new things on the market. I'll still expect them to last.. but I'll know that in time, some of those things are going to cause me to spend great amounts of times in return lines, and on the help/support phone lines getting RMA numbers for shit. It's the new reality.

10-20 years ago.. If you have a Sony VCR, you either took it back to where you bought it if it was under the store policy, or, or contacted Sony. If you were lucky, there'd be one phone number, and their RMA dept was  run by a few people. these days, these large companies have massive RMA depts. spread out across the country, and in different countires, etc. the Nature of the beast is that despite the claims by MS, and other manufacturers to what the numbers really are, this shit will die, alot of prematurely, and people aren't just rolling over and automatically buying a new one from a store. We want, and expect the manufacturers to keep this stuff running for a reasonable amount of time.

bitch is.. what is reasonable?

You will NEVER get MS, SONy, or anyone else to say, state how long these things SHOULD run for minimally. SONY/SCEA will never say.. our game consoles.. will RUN for 3 years. Will RUN for 5 YEARS before failure. At best.. all we have is their warranty policy periods. that is the only measure any manufacturer gives us.  

some will give you numbers like MTBF, etc. But, the numbers that really mean something to us is how long will they cover it? For consoles.. for 360.. least we now have a universal minimum of 1 year.. 2 if you are EU if I am correct.

While no manufacturer would ever want to, or could really afford to warranty anything beyond it's expected life (after all.. I don't care how much you care about your customer, you really don't want to be ojn the hook for maintaining a device beyond a certain period of time) they come up with a number, that reflects how long they thing it will last, guantee run without issue. They take that number, and figure out the costs of what will fail even that number. there is some sort of equation that is used. Once that balance is met, that is the magic number. Clearly, the Warranty, is meant to be a worst case lifespan for a product, and one that reflect a small percentage or the product. Stuuf would clearly last longer. however, given that formula that is used, tehy know, statistically how long most hardware will survive, and how much is expected to fail.

I do think.. that things need to change. I do think that warranties, and their longevity should go hand in hand with the cost of the unit. I do think that a device that cost 500$ should last 5 years without fail. I think if the manufacturer needs to charge more up front to make sure that happens, then by all means they should. I'm not against any company charging a fair price to cover costs. I am against paying crazy money and getting little for it.

As for GHII, updated my 5 month old 360.. played a number of tunes.. no instant death, no issues. I don't expect any sudden death issues to arise from my GH sessions.. or the fact I've updated GHII.  If I'm wrong.. you can expect a fuming DEMONZ to come back and rant and bitch like a maniac. Until then.. i'm going to enjoy my GHII.

Got my 100% achievement today, so I'm a happy camper all around. (literally, it's the first time in ANY 360 game where I made an effort to earn an achievement.)


EDIT: I was going to correct all the typos.. then I realized I made so many.. and it's late.. fuck it. Have a laugh at my expense tonight guys. Peace.

[twistednailsofv]

to all those people getting rings of death... you may wanna check out the thread in the forums that tell you what the rings of death are coming from, basically... the 360 tells YOU whats wrong with it... my friend fried my 360... i used literally a hair dyer on high and managed to fix the 360's motherboard...that 360 has a manufacture date of 2/2006... also to remind people, just because your system is manufactured later doesn't keep them from using older parts in it...  i have another 360 manufactured 8/2006 and it has components that various dates but all span the lifetime of the 360... the onlything to look for is the differences in the motherboard, like the newer one come with i believe foam or rubber to help alleviate and to help dissipate the heat from the RAM, because the RAM is so close to the casing it can easily just insulate itself and literally melt of or at lease loosen itself... thats what happended to my older 360 as where the newer one have that padding to alleviate the heat more properly or to not let it sit building up too much heat... and blah blah...

also with the patch... isn't the patch suppose to meet these high M$ stadards... i mean you see so many things get delayed... jeez... i guess M$ put all of the money and eggs into that basket to let this patch go w/o throughly testing it... remember how much PR they did for the 360 version of Guitar hero... I mean to sit and let this problem of messed whammy's mess up there sales ould in a buisness sense... be stoopid... but it pactical real world sense... well, you need to heavy testing before releasing such patches... probably causes random glithes and burned or just messed up your XBOX 360's...

sorry for you guys... hope you people get your 360's fix...

p.s. you should check out the thread on the 360 telling you what's wrong with itself... it's done w/o opening it up... it'll tell you the error code by pressing the 360's buttons on the front of the system. The one i got was a 0102 error... if you have warranty do't opn th 360... just send i in for repairs... for those w/ nothing to lose... open i and just a decnt hair dryer or hot gun and blow away... basically your gonna wanna like seriously... and i mean seriously heat the motherboard... trust me i had to leave my hair dryer on high and blowing on the thing for 10 mins... and then let it cool, do both sides of the motherboard... like i said... do this if you nothing to lose... you may also wanna consider eBay...

if you think i'm crazy... I could careless, i fixed several 360's this way... and both my 360's are out of warranty cuz I voided it... so when you got nothing to lose... you just try to repair it... or you ebay it... and there are people high up in this forum that can tell you that the most ridiculous ways to fix the 360 are sometimes the best way to... aka the rubberband trick and so on... etc. etc


peace

[feflicker]

@twistednailsofv, while I agree that their is some truth in this whole "heat gun fix", that (in my estimation) only fixes 10% of dying 360's at best. Plus, the ones this "fixes" usually just end up dying again a week later,  a month later, etc. It's worth a shot before you toss something out, or sell it for parts, but let's not look at this like it is some magic fix by any stretch of the imagination.

I haven't heard of this button sequence to get your error code (only knew about reading the error based on which lights were on/off). If someone has that link to that thread please PM it to me, I haven't been on the boards much, must have missed it...

[jeff10]

QUOTE(HSDEMONZ @ Apr 15 2007, 12:45 PM)

I stand by my comment. I fully believe that the warranty period is as long as we can expect hardware these days to last. the days of buying a piece of electronics and watching it last 10 years is over. I remember buying my original VHS and BETA machines, and watched them work long and hard under shitty conditions for 5, 10, and more years.

these days.. brand name electonics just aren't doing that anymore. People are far more likely to buy hardware today, and replace it in 2 year due to failure or wanting the latest greatest. Manufacturers no longer strive to make quality components that stand the test of time.

Especially stuff branded with the MS or Xbox logo. that's not to say we shouldn't want, or expect our stuff to last longer. I do. but, given what we've seen, and the half assed qc and manufacturing we're seeing, I don't expect 360's (or other game consoles for that matter) to last 3 or more years anymore. This stuff simply isn't built to last. Whether that is to planned obsolescence or to just shotty hardware and manufacturing.. I do not know.

This is by no means limited to the MS/Xbox camp. We all have stories of friends who owned, 2, 3 or more PS2's due to dying lasers, etc.

It's just no longer really reasonable to expect that the hardware we buy, will last much longer than the warranty anymore. It's a shame those extended warranties stores try to sell us sometimes aren't worth the paper they are written on, as we sure can use those extra years.

To tell the truth.. my LIVE 360 unit.. which is my second.. (first one died, sure enough.. just as the original warranty ended) I doubt will last long into 2008. If it does, I'll actually consider myself fortunate. I don't abuse the hardware, and in fact maintain and keep my hardware in better conditions and environments than most that surf these boards. It doesn't change the fact I have little faith in any modern day 360, PS3 surviving much past it's first or second birthday.
You have 10-15 minutes from the time you submit a post to go back and edit it. After that, it's committed. Necessary evil due to user abuse on this site.
Sorry to hear that, but I doubt your "fix" will last long. If the box is in warranty, get it replaced asap. 1-800-4-my-xbox

Sorta off topic but i worked for GE,, General Electric for 10 years and the manufactured had a small wire or something of the sort that would last around 4-5 years. During a meeting the question came up that it would cost no more money to replace the part where the motor would likely last 20 years. The response was ((( these specs are used for a reason if you replaced a part in 3 years versus 20 would you still have a job))

point in case Yes things can be made to last longer but at what cost to the peoplethat manufacture them, Also replacement parts division gets no money either... Its no a conspiracy just a fact...

Ps I would never buy anything with the name GE, Dayton, Whirlpool All have GE parts.

just my 2cents

[Charbless]

This big thing about 360 failing well what can you say apart from you don't know how a lot of people store or treat them so that can play a big part.

It is shocking but i know lot of people when theres becomes loud or goes bit slow they wack it to sort it lot of the time it works but it can't be healthy another thing I know so many people that put it close to thing like speakers/subs and just lob them in small spaces.

In some ways this 360 failing after 2 years or so isn't really a problem for UK people because are sales of goods act states electrical stuff should last 6 years if it doesn't and can proof it's hardware fault can claim for it.

[twistednailsofv]

QUOTE(feflicker @ Apr 16 2007, 02:44 AM)

@twistednailsofv, while I agree that their is some truth in this whole "heat gun fix", that (in my estimation) only fixes 10% of dying 360's at best. Plus, the ones this "fixes" usually just end up dying again a week later,  a month later, etc. It's worth a shot before you toss something out, or sell it for parts, but let's not look at this like it is some magic fix by any stretch of the imagination.

I haven't heard of this button sequence to get your error code (only knew about reading the error based on which lights were on/off). If someone has that link to that thread please PM it to me, I haven't been on the boards much, must have missed it...

agreed that it only fixes a portion of 360's... however... it's rare that a 360 really fails like i mean like GPU or CPU or RAM... I mean majority of time you have to agree it's generally user error or mishandling... which is not to say that poor or shotty manufacturing isn't to blame either... but if you look at motherboards now and then you can see they do make suck fixes to prevent the previous errors of the past... I find it rare that a 360 or a Xbox 1 is beyond repair... I mean to be beyond repair must had some serious problem...

also generally with fixes the heat gun... well with me the hair dryer has saved me and some of my friends of having to go buy a new one... well, so far at least...

[twistednailsofv]

QUOTE(jeff10 @ Apr 16 2007, 02:45 AM)

Sorta off topic but i worked for GE,, General Electric for 10 years and the manufactured had a small wire or something of the sort that would last around 4-5 years. During a meeting the question came up that it would cost no more money to replace the part where the motor would likely last 20 years. The response was ((( these specs are used for a reason if you replaced a part in 3 years versus 20 would you still have a job))

point in case Yes things can be made to last longer but at what cost to the peoplethat manufacture them, Also replacement parts division gets no money either... Its no a conspiracy just a fact...

Ps I would never buy anything with the name GE, Dayton, Whirlpool All have GE parts.

just my 2cents

i made this point too... but then again... GE makes money on consumer things... they sell you a dryer... they dun sell you the detergeent and clothes to go with it...

Microsoft maks no money off a console... it's makes most of it's money from licensing games and accessories, or the sale of it's 1stparty accessories...

if anyone is familiar with insurance... there's a scale of how much it costs to repair it vs. profit... if it's only on or 2 people getting the problem, you settle or your fix it for them... if eeryone's gonnahave a problem and sue them... then they'll consider a recall... but i'm using the car method of insurance when selling and making cars... and blah blah lah... for M$ third probably sitting somewhere thing about a newer version of the 360 as this one is already falling apart... I doubt the Elite is versions 2.0... it's more version 1.1 and 1/half... just to be like eff you PS3 we got HDMI, were ready for the future... and the to the Wii, whats up chump you still got 50 wores you need to connect to your TV, grow up... =P

I can see in the future them allowing people to fork over a 100 or 200 in exchange to get a HDMI model... but it's probably for those people with warranty seals still intact...

besides...HDMI is over rated... your not going to see that mainstream for years... DVD has only boomed recently... it took how long... and with HDMI complaint TV's costs $1,000+ easily and HD DD and Blu-Ray player another $500 to $1,000 plus easily... by the time HDMI becomes the standard is when the the next gen system comes out...

[spinr34]

seriously why did this make news? it's shit like this that makes the already paranoid xbox community even more paranoid.

[BoNg420]

I installed the update and played for a few hours no problem.