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[FCTE]

QUOTE(Heet @ Jul 30 2007, 07:53 PM)

I see your side but if its time to accommodate game makers.....I mean I want that stuff in PGR4.

Agreed, essentially game makers are artists. I want to receive the game in it's entirety like they envisioned it to be, not crippled because of the stupid DVD format.

[Havok]

QUOTE(slipstream @ Jul 30 2007, 08:53 PM)

diffirent textures for Day and Night? really? THAT seems like a waste-of-space to me, especially as he later says they will just use diffirent lighting instead (isnt that the diffience in real life?) other games (MMO's, Fable, Elder Scroll) all change from day to night without loading new textures, why cant a racing game?

Because they are probably were going to have lights turn on in cities etc..

[Havok]

QUOTE(xcalixxryderx @ Jul 30 2007, 09:04 PM)

well they better do somthin cause i would hate to see em usin 2 disks like some of the ps1 games

I was just about to say... They can just put it on two discs.. whats the big deal...

When you get to a certain level in your career it says... "Please put in dics two to continue"

The game can have overlap so you are never swapping and swap seamlessly from disc 1 to disc 2 just the first time.

[slipstream]

QUOTE(Havok @ Jul 31 2007, 02:27 AM)

Because they are probably were going to have lights turn on in cities etc..

I dont see how this would be an issue with textures, since the other games I mentioned work fine with using lights at night.

(not trying to attack you or anything, I just dont really understand why you would need new textures for lighting changes. Oh, and Crackdown does it, which has light-up building, again, without diffirent textures)

[illiteratePoet]

QUOTE(ethanknepp @ Jul 30 2007, 07:27 PM)

with xbox 360 limited to 8.5GBs for a game unless Microsoft does something, say hello to more Sony Exclusives with pretty unlimited space for developers  from blue rays 25GBs but this wont set in for another few years ...

Actually we will more likely see increasingly stripped down games because the 360 has a larger install base and devs will want to cater to the most people to make the most money. Basically the 360's limited capacity is dragging the average quality of games down. The 360 has been largely a disappointment for me (I don't own a PS3 as it currently has NO games that interest me). I think the last time I played my Wii was in January...o well back to PC   .

[PandaExpress]

QUOTE(tabsaid @ Jul 31 2007, 02:10 AM)

Then they better give me and everyone else a free HD-DVD drive.  Or my 400$ console will really be obsolete.  Now you can see why this isn't an option.  Should have been built in from launch, too late now.

If it was built in from launch day then you would have paid $600 to $700, and that would make 99% of the people cry its too expensive.
I would still like to see a $600 version with HdDvD, 160gig HDD
HDMI  wireless nic and fixed rrod
and games should come in HD or DVD format (same game on 2 dvd or 1 HDdvd)  like PC you can buy a CD or dvd version of most games.
I think that would fix the dvd limitation problem

[quarky42]

How about they offer new levels to download via Live to HDD....  no HDD is required to play the main game, but if you want all the spiffy levels they have to offer you should get a HDD.  Simple.  Effective.   Levels would load faster off the HDD than the DVD anyway.

[0794]

QUOTE(feflicker @ Jul 30 2007, 07:50 PM)

We've been through this, DVD9 is plenty of space. The problem comes in when developers don't want to spend the extra time/money to fully optimize their code and media support files. I guarantee they could fit it all if they took the time to optimize, they just don't want to do that when they get next to nothing for that extra time in return...

Don't blame the fact that you can't fit your game on the DVD9 format on the size, blame the CODE, and ultimately the CODER.

EDIT: How much do you want to bet the disc is packed with bloated pre-rendedered cinematics at maximum resolution and bitrate? LOL.

exactly, laziness permeates all levels of American society...

sure blame MS when you can't use your brain to code smart enough...

[thecowsays]

if they are too lazy to code it properly, then fuck em. they are lazy and the game was going to be shit anyway. 2 textures for day and night? who are they kidding? dynamic lighting. duh. throw a sunset in for shits and giggles. and if any game developers actually has to use 2 disks, they are just lazy. 8.5 GB is plenty for any game this generation. if gears and oblivion fit on one disk each, any other game should, too. especially a racing game. im sure there are a bunch of repeated models and textures and there are tons of ways to compress stuff like that. and the programmers are not 'artists.' thats just stupid. they are CS majors. they are engineers. their sole job is to make that game run. they dont design stuff, they dont do little artsy fartsy things. they program. they compress. they need to optimize their code and if anybody is still using prerendered movies, thats just stupid. any in game movie should be scripted and rendered in real time. save a shitload of space. ms was smart in that they didnt put an unproven format in their system. if sony happens to get lucky and (one of) their format(s finally) is accepted by the public then they took a huge gamble and won. ms went the safe, cheaper and more common sense route and put a standard dvd drive in the 360. yay. $100 cheaper. as for using the HDDVD drive for games: its USB. 480 Mb/s. thats 60MB/s. slow. thats the theoretical max, too, without any coversions and buffers and things of that nature. plus it alienates anyone who doesnt have one. dumb.   if there are any more posts that i need to destroy, or companys that need my advice, let me know.

[edwinmcdunlap]

QUOTE(quarky42 @ Jul 30 2007, 09:01 PM)

How about they offer new levels to download via Live to HDD....  no HDD is required to play the main game, but if you want all the spiffy levels they have to offer you should get a HDD.  Simple.  Effective.   Levels would load faster off the HDD than the DVD anyway.

That would work DLC

[Mr007]

The dvd is fine, M$ should have had the harddrive in every console.They could of just downloaded most to the harddrive and stream the rest from the Disc.

People who say ps3 is better because of bluray are retards.Ps3 has games on bluray but it still installs most of the games on to the harddrive cause the bluray drive is so dam freaking slow.

[Lush]

Blue Dragon uses 3 discs...

[XHN_SCRAPY]

Cough cough   .......HD-DVD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do IT just do it NOOOW.

[yaazz]

Hmm all this bickering about the 360 dieing.... EGADS! I HAVE A SOLUTION put the game on two discs....problem solved.

Although this would give the annoyance of having to switch discs to switch tracks. And all of the cars would have to be on both discs, so it might be more of a hassle then its worth.
Either way, PGR4 looks awesome so I dont care

[luther349]

QUOTE(FCTE @ Jul 31 2007, 02:58 AM)

I don't understand why MS just doesn't use the HD DVD format for games. It looks like Bluray is going to win the format war for movies, so maybe MS should buy off HD DVD and use it for games. Maybe the current 360s with a patch could utilize the USB HD DVD player for games. I don't know if the USB may be too much of a bottleneck or not.

This really blows, what about the future of 360 games?  

I guess I should start building a new gaming PC.

thats easy cost and the ongoing format war. ms did not whant to make the 360 as expensiv as the ps3 and adding hddvd as a built in drive would brought it up the the price the ps3 is and we all knoe what that did to the ps3. and ms did not whant to give the 360 a format that might die in a cuple years. so they stuck to standerd dvd for all there games for the life of the 360 they also did not whant to force hd-dvd only games couse that woulda pissed alot of people off being forced to buy a addon and would also justfy just buying a ps3.

the mastake was not including a harddrive in the core thow couse then the limits of a standerd dvd would not be so bad sence they could essently compress the maps and use the harddrive to decompress them like they did on the orignal xbox. but sence they cant depend of every 360 having a harddrive they are indeed stuck to the size of a dl dvd. you can still use compression via memery but it would give the game some nasty load time.

but relly a dl dvd is over 8 gigs of space on its own if you game is bigger then 8 gigs you fail as a coder. look at forza 2 is has over 300 cars and also tons of custom stuff and plenty of maps and it fits on a standerd dvd just fine. so whats there problem. no sence in wining abought it anyways the 360 has a nice little feature called download content if you whant to include more maps that cant fit on your porrly codded game then offer up on there for free or include a code in the game box that gives it to your for free.  problem salved. hell im shure after that they can make plenty of pay content to make up for the giveaway.