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Author Topic: Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat  (Read 171 times)

brakken

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2006, 02:16:00 AM »

There's this little thing called physics ... mathmatically speaking you have more precise control with a keyboard and mouse then you would with a joypad. Now, I wonder who was doing this testing? Were the people using the keyboard and mouse even used to using them or did they hand pick a bunch of 12 year old halo fanboys?

I'll stick with my keyboard and laser mouse anyday.
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ncaissie

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2006, 04:31:00 AM »

Man a keyboard and mouse for the consoles would be sweet!!


I love playing Far cry and HL 2 on the PC but on the Xbox it's to hard to aim.


Halo 2 (or 3) with a mouse an keyboard would rock.


To bad they didn't make one for the Xbox.   sad.gif
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incognegro

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2006, 04:48:00 AM »

biased crap meant to sell a 360? Both PC gamers and 360 can use the 360 controller on their systems so how could it be biased?

anyways gimme my controller and ill smoke you keyboard users anyday biggrin.gif
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zX_Storm

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2006, 05:57:00 AM »

QUOTE

It sounds to me like the article was leaving out some detail to be purposely misleading. If I read it correctly, the dev team added things like auto-aim for the KBM players to balance it out. So does that mean the controller guys already had auto-aim? Not only does it change the game, but it completely underscores the argument about controls.

If a controller is so good for FPS games -- which it isn't -- it wouldn't need auto-aim.


Computer games have never had auto-aim, because.. they don't need it.
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twistedsymphony

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2006, 07:48:00 AM »

I remember Quake III on the Dreamcast... KB/mouse players destroyed the controller users... But on the same token the game was originally designed to be played on a keyboard and mouse.

As for me, I'm horrible with a keyboard and mouse and feel much more comfortable using a game pad... I get destroyed no matter WHAT I use but I get destroyed less with a game pad

I think the most important thing with what control device is better is the player's skill with that device, if you're familiar with a keyboard and mouse you'll always be better with it over a gamepad and visa versa.

with all skills equal a skilled gamepad player vs a skilled keyboard/mouse player the keyboard/mouse player has the advantage based purely on precision.

-------------

Despite past experience this really can't be compared to Quake or any other game that has had various optional controls like that, it's quite obvious that the developers have spent a lot of time to ensure that the controls are balanced where past titles didn't really get that.

I think it's a great idea that they'd open up a game to let uses play with whatever they want.... I also think that if they do that they NEED to institute options that would allow you to setup your games to play against the type of players you want. So if you're a gamepad player and only want to play against other gamepad players, you should have that option.

Options are good, but giving the option of what controller type you also need the option of if you want to play against people using that controller type.

In the end you can't compare it to past experiences, wait and see if the game really truly is balanced, maybe you wont mind playing against someone using a different type of controller.. maybe it wont matter.
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ikecomp

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2006, 08:28:00 AM »

Like the the article stated, a KBM are ideal for certain situations like distance shooting/precision and the controller is better at close combat environments/overall direction movement. But it all comes down to preference and type of games.

Think about it, how well would somebody playing with a KBM fair against somebody with a controller in a game of Madden. The controller would win hands down just because of the intuitiveness of the button layout and also better control of the modeled athlete on screen.
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TheOtherBob

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2006, 12:07:00 PM »

I'd love a kbm for the 360.  I'm pretty bad at the controller.  But then I was pretty bad at the kbm when free look became popular when Quake hit on the pc.  Couldn't do much looking up and down in Doom iirc.  After a lot of practise things got much easier.  I just need to practise more on the 360 controller.... CoD2 is kickin' my ass..... It's a fun ass kickin' tho!

I wonder if it'd be possible to allow the kbm in singleplayer as an option but not on Live to keep things fair?

How do driving games work with a steering wheel over the regular controller?  Do the wheel owners have an advantage?  I don't own any racing games so......
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sp3cialk

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2006, 01:58:00 PM »

I hate PC games that use KB/M... I'm good with a mouse but horrible with the keyboard... so i often get hammered hitting the wrong key and not moving... maybe they should make a hybrid usb that's half mouse and half controller... because nothing beats a 1600 dpi mouse for sniping... don't thinks those little pots in my controller are that precise... but still... I'm at a desk in front of a computer all day... I'd rather sit back in my recliner and use my wireless controller any day...
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Foe-hammer

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2006, 04:23:00 AM »

The DC controller is a horrible example.  It did not have duel analog sticks, and the movement sucked with just four directional buttons for movement.  So ofcourse the keyboard and mouse dominated.

Lets break it down here:

Mouse is more accurate then the controller analog stick for aiming.

Keyboard has no advantage over the analog controller for movement, infact it is at a disadvantage.  Thus.... mouse is good, keyboard sucks.
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Lysit

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2006, 05:08:00 PM »

QUOTE(sp3cialk @ May 19 2006, 09:05 PM) View Post

I hate PC games that use KB/M... I'm good with a mouse but horrible with the keyboard... so i often get hammered hitting the wrong key and not moving... maybe they should make a hybrid usb that's half mouse and half controller... because nothing beats a 1600 dpi mouse for sniping... don't thinks those little pots in my controller are that precise... but still... I'm at a desk in front of a computer all day... I'd rather sit back in my recliner and use my wireless controller any day...



Try joystick and mouse, I believe UT was orginally meant to be played like that. (Joystick for movement, mouse for aiming).
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deacon187

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2006, 06:44:00 PM »

QUOTE(TheOtherBob @ May 19 2006, 11:14 AM) View Post

How do driving games work with a steering wheel over the regular controller?  Do the wheel owners have an advantage?  I don't own any racing games so......



i havent played on the 360 with a wheel yet, BUT it almost feels, racing with the controller on PGR3, that it would be better with a wheel, arcade style racers with a wheel sucks because the responce is so messed up, but on a game that feels like pgr3 with a controller, almost seems like the responce would be awsome on a wheel, i could be wrong but i havent tried a wheel yet

can someone with a wheel enlighten us on how pgr3 is compared to say full auto or burnout, wheel vs controller for each game
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redwolf

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2006, 06:31:00 AM »

apart from the control issues KB/M -vs- gamepad. what about frame rate!!!!

someone could have super fast PC, then all they will do is use it at low graphical setting via game's option, turning all the textures and everything to minimum, turn off all the shadows and other effects to get smooth fast frame rate.

and most monitors you can get like 120Hz refresh-rate, as console will be 60Hz the maxed!

console gamers are fucked  grr.gif

so will we be able to tell if someone using the PC or Xbox 360 in the game? if so, we can at least know why we getting pwned and exit the game  unsure.gif
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brooksie48

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2006, 09:30:00 AM »

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ May 19 2006, 08:55 AM) View Post
As for me, I'm horrible with a keyboard and mouse and feel much more comfortable using a game pad...
Same here, when I was playing the bf2 demo I couldn't wait to play modern combat on xbox, because I am better with it and I like the feel more.
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RUNEX2K

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Live Anywhere Dev: Xbox 360 Pad Beats Keyb. and Mouse in Close Combat
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2006, 05:40:00 AM »

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ May 19 2006, 02:55 PM) View Post

I remember Quake III on the Dreamcast... KB/mouse players destroyed the controller users... But on the same token the game was originally designed to be played on a keyboard and mouse.

As for me, I'm horrible with a keyboard and mouse and feel much more comfortable using a game pad... I get destroyed no matter WHAT I use but I get destroyed less with a game pad

I think the most important thing with what control device is better is the player's skill with that device, if you're familiar with a keyboard and mouse you'll always be better with it over a gamepad and visa versa.

with all skills equal a skilled gamepad player vs a skilled keyboard/mouse player the keyboard/mouse player has the advantage based purely on precision.

-------------

Despite past experience this really can't be compared to Quake or any other game that has had various optional controls like that, it's quite obvious that the developers have spent a lot of time to ensure that the controls are balanced where past titles didn't really get that.

I think it's a great idea that they'd open up a game to let uses play with whatever they want.... I also think that if they do that they NEED to institute options that would allow you to setup your games to play against the type of players you want. So if you're a gamepad player and only want to play against other gamepad players, you should have that option.

Options are good, but giving the option of what controller type you also need the option of if you want to play against people using that controller type.

In the end you can't compare it to past experiences, wait and see if the game really truly is balanced, maybe you wont mind playing against someone using a different type of controller.. maybe it wont matter.

I used to play Q3 on the Dreamcast with the K/M allot and kicked most peoples asses,  sometimes no losses at all most nights quite frequently but i could'nt get the hang of playing it with a pad no matter how much i practiced, BUT there was a few players that really took to the pad and gave mouse and keyboard users a sense of shame as they were supposed to be using superior controlls.  Its not always the case that K/M users have an unfair advantage but generally it is,  In my opinion there are only two kinds of games that suit K/M better and they are FPS and RTS but its clear that most of the time its how the game makers implements these controlls rather than the controller in question.  
The Dreamcast and Q3 supprised many especially PC owners that expected them to be a walk over even though they had far superior power but it wasnt always the case.  i remember playing pc players and owning with my faithful DC K/M running at a max 28kbps with my 60hz tv.  The Balance as you state can be achieved even with large differences between hardware but it takes more time to become effective than it would with a pc K/M but worth it in the end.  The 360 pad is amazing and compared to the DC pad its far more effective but the keyboard and mouse combo has stayed the same throughout, i do believe that the time is getting closer before the equalibrium or close to it can be achieved, the advantage is definatley slipping away from the K/M and moving over to the PAD but it will never be totally the best unless there is some method of being more precise with a pad.
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