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[KAGE360]

QUOTE(jaskerzada006 @ Mar 15 2006, 03:17 PM)

The advantages of a unified arch over a dedicated one are arguable.

Which is why Nvidia or ATI hasn't gone unified on the pc.

i thought that they havent gone unified because of the standards set in the PC market.  all this is supposed to change with the introduction of Vista which will make unified architecture a huge part of gaming last i read.  

i think the only one here to say anything about uniified vs. dedicated would be M_hael.  he's worked on the xbox and 360 which feature both architectures.  

not only am i curious about the benefits but also if unified needs specific programming to take advantage of it or does it read shader code the same way?  how much, if any, more control/freedom does unified offer?  to me the GPU in the 360 is far more interesting then any other component in any of the 3 next gen consoles.

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(jaskerzada006 @ Mar 15 2006, 04:25 PM)

I'll let NVIDIA Corp.’s chief architect David Kirk do the talking.

"It's far harder to design a unified processor - it has to do, by design, twice as much. Another word for 'unified' is 'shared', and another word for 'shared' is 'competing'. It's a challenge to create a chip that does load balancing and performance prediction. It's extremely important, especially in a console architecture, for the performance to be predicable. With all that balancing, it's difficult to make the performance predictable. I've even heard that some developers dislike the unified pipe, and will be handling vertex pipeline calculations on the Xbox 360's triple-core CPU."

 
you sir, are a tool.  your taking quotes from the competitor, that is like me coming back from a quote from someone at ATI.  you would take it with a grain of salt.  however there is a difference, last i checked all cards will eventually be going unified and ATI will be in the forefront.  also with different architectures, your bound to have developers not fond of new techniques (gabe newell on multi-core CPUs for instace).  if you quoted a developer might be a different story.  where he says that consoles should be predictable, you will get as many (if not more) devs saying that a GPU should be flexable.  

if your going to debate then i hope you do a better job then let the competition take their jabs on the subject for you.  like i said, only developers have any real right to voice their opinions, not you, nor someone from ATI or Nvidia.

to add to my point here is a quote from a developer not hired by sony or MS:

QUOTE

Which of the Xbox 360’s graphical capabilities has proved most valuable to you in game development?

Codemasters: The fully programmable shaders help matters a great deal. It allows our teams to do lots of interesting tricks and stuff. It comes back to enabling realistic lighting models I mentioned earlier which really lift the reality of an image

http://www.xb360info.../interviews/149

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(jaskerzada006 @ Mar 15 2006, 04:52 PM)

I don't want to debate with you.

I just want people to be aware that there are differing opinions regarding this subject and if you'd pull your dick out of M_Hael's ass you'd be able to see that.

But calling me a tool is pretty desperate.  

Where did I disrespect you in such a manner?

I'll leave you to your narrow mindedness and flaming.

i already stated about people having different opinions in my last post, where i never even mentioned M_hael but quoted another developer.  calling you a tool couldnt have offended you unless your mr. sensitive, as you know i was refering to you pulling a quote from Nvidia, ATI's direct competitor.  just because my post didnt agree with your opinion and you have nothing better to say back doesnt mean you need to not only insult me but those who actually work in this industry.

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(jaskerzada006 @ Mar 15 2006, 05:14 PM)

I'm glad you edited your post to take that line about  m_hael being the messaih out.

It shows you know how to take advice.  I'm sure he's relieved also now that your dick is no longer in him.

what do you have against those that have a right to speak about the industry?  i much rather read a developer interview and get info from someone inside of the industry then to read an editor's rant about things he is not directly invovled in.  unless you actually have something mature to add to this topic, why bother?

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Mar 15 2006, 04:45 PM)

to add to my point here is a quote from a developer not hired by sony or MS:
http://www.xb360info.../interviews/149

The dude from codemasters is talking about fully programmable shaders, which has nothing to do with unified shaders as a dedicated pipe also has fully programmable shaders, it just has separate vertex shader and pixel shader pipes.

But back to the quote from David Kirk, I like how you are dismissing something from the company who invented programmable shaders

Nvidia is not $ony, they are not a bunch of lying jackasses. Oh and last time I checked, ATI themselevs has even said they don't really know if unified shaders are any better than dedicated...............in some instances they can be in theory, but we all know what theory really means, don't we? *Think PS3 theoretical performance numbers.*  

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Mar 16 2006, 10:00 AM)

The dude from codemasters is talking about fully programmable shaders, which has nothing to do with unified shaders as a dedicated pipe also has fully programmable shaders, it just has separate vertex shader and pixel shader pipes.

But back to the quote from David Kirk, I like how you are dismissing something from the company who invented programmable shaders

Nvidia is not $ony, they are not a bunch of lying jackasses. Oh and last time I checked, ATI themselevs has even said they don't really know if unified shaders are any better than dedicated...............in some instances they can be in theory, but we all know what theory really means, don't we? *Think PS3 theoretical performance numbers.*  

i know that fully programmable shaders is not unified shaders, my point of the quote is that there are developers out there who really like the shader performance of the 360.  i know Nvidia arent sony, and i respect the company, however they are competition to ATI which is why i dismiss them.  im not saying unified shaders is this grand thing (which is why i have so many questions about it) but i dont think its correct to dismiss something before its proven.  

i love Nvidia hardware, however unlike in the past during the Gforce 3 days, they are not the only clear choice now.  IMHO, there is very little difference between ATI and Nvidia other then choice of brand name.  they are both great technologies that have make great strides in graphics.

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Mar 16 2006, 10:08 AM)

i know that fully programmable shaders is not unified shaders, my point of the quote is that there are developers out there who really like the shader performance of the 360.

The quote you used could peretain to any GPU with programmable shaders.

QUOTE

Codemasters: The fully programmable shaders help matters a great deal. It allows our teams to do lots of interesting tricks and stuff. It comes back to enabling realistic lighting models I mentioned earlier which really lift the reality of an image.

See, he is just talking about shaders in general and how its nice that the console supports fully programmable shaders so they can create more realistic lighting and images. Heck, I bet a PC/PS3 developer has said almost that exact same quote at one time or another. I take that back, I know PC developers have said almost that exact quote. A developer for Command and Conquer Generals said that about the Geforce FX cards, about how they can create hollywood style effects, images, and lighting due to the shaders. Valve developers said that exact same fluff about the Radeon 9700 series.

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Mar 16 2006, 10:47 AM)

The quote you used could peretain to any GPU with programmable shaders.

See, he is just talking about shaders in general and how its nice that the console supports fully programmable shaders so they can create more realistic lighting and images. Heck, I bet a PC/PS3 developer has said almost that exact same quote at one time or another.

i understand all of this.  my point was that here is a developer who is happy with the 360 in terms of shaders.  i mean if unified was truely such a troublesome architecture i dont think any developers would have pleasent things to say about the 360 in regards to shader performance at all.  im not turning this into a "who's better" debate

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE

im not turning this into a "who's better" debate

Neither was I..........

I was just stating my opinion..........I don't care for what developers have to say because IMO they are just happy to have more powerful hadware than they had last generation.