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[minus5252]

QUOTE(xxpspmadxx @ May 5 2010, 01:03 PM)

I have a lot of confidence this will work. If IXtreme can get away with playing Backed up games with out Microsoft knowing its a Copy. Then i can use there method and create a Costume Firmware for the HDD an get away with it. Firmware hacking can accomplish a lot, if it is done correctly. whit that said its still possible.

UPDATE: contacted iXtreme for there Firmware expertise waiting for a Response. wish me good luck

I'm still on board man, but you haven't ever answered my question: How would you switch discs?

I actually have a possible solution, not sure how feasible it is, but I believe this would only work if the firmware is set to check for a signed disc BEFORE running default.xex...if that is the case, could you have the "DVD Drive" set to "hijack" the thread and load it's own game menu?

[minus5252]

QUOTE(xxpspmadxx @ May 5 2010, 01:34 PM)

Well i was thinking of Creating a App that will allow you to extract the Game to the Modified HDD. the software will also be able to keep a DB of all your Games on you computers HDD. When ever you would want to switch a game you have to connect the Modified HDD to your pc and transfer over the game you want to play. THe Game will load exactly the same way the Xbox reads the Game off the DVD Drive. im trying to Emulate the DVD Drive with the Modified HDD. Also you cant run Unsigned Code with out having a JTAGED console im trying not to run unsigned codes on the Xbox.

If that is the case, then I assume this is just a "See if I can do it" project, as even if it works, it wouldn't be easier than just switching physical disks, and would need a computer.

I understand that unsigned code can't be run as we know it, but when the the signature check made? If it is made when the disc is initially read only, then embedding a game menu into the emulated "DVD" firmware would be possible AFAIK.

[No_Name]

I am not sure you understand what it is the hacked firmware does.

Before you go any further you need to understand the disk authentication challenge/response protocol and second to that you need to understand how the hacked firmware does what it does.

Its not a simple case of hooking up a DVD drive and says bobs your uncle with some "code" to handle it because the security chain is not intact at this point.

The console will not accept a HDD as a DVD drive without some major modifications.
My opinion.. Those in the know who found the DVD firmware hold could have explored this as an an option but did not because it was a no-go which is why you are still burning disks today.

[suhas93]

QUOTE

Those in the know who found the DVD firmware hold could have explored this as an an option but did not because it was a no-go which is why you are still burning disks today.

[minus5252]

QUOTE(suhas93 @ May 6 2010, 01:12 AM)

if your goal is to save on DL DVDs.. here's an idea

we install a game from our computer (xplorer360?) ... I donno how you are going to tackle the console ID problem ... mayb cloning the xbox installation process (have no idea)...

we write a firmware for CDs or single layer dvds (theyr cheap) .... we burn the cd with just the bootloaders for that game ... then play...

So, can this work? (sorry, i have no experience, hacking)

I think the idea mentioned in the OP is a little difficult....
as No_name said

Damn...that's a good idea, wish I'd thought of that a LONG time ago! Would've saved some $

[No_Name]

QUOTE(suhas93 @ May 5 2010, 11:12 PM)

we write a firmware for CDs or single layer dvds (theyr cheap) .... we burn the cd with just the bootloaders for that game ... then play...

So, can this work? (sorry, i have no experience, hacking)

This idea was bounced about when the ability to install games to the hard drive was released but many people said it was a no-go as well.

[No_Name]

Its not just hacking the firmware, its making the firmware do things it was never designed to do while keeping the required functionality.

Some people have touted making a Man in the middle device to do what you are thinking and some of the people who did the early work on the system said it was a no-go.

These are the same people who identified the abality to modify the firmware to start with, the work that C4Eva used to build his hacks from.

I have been trying to tell you that its been though of and rejected in the past as the hurdles, and the sheer cost to even begin to try and do this is excessive.
Do you know how expensive the tools are to even access the firmware to a hard drive are?
Let me ask you this.. If HDD hacking was so easy why are only WD drives supported by HDD-Hacker?

[minus5252]

QUOTE(No_Name @ May 6 2010, 09:33 AM)

Its not just hacking the firmware, its making the firmware do things it was never designed to do while keeping the required functionality.

Some people have touted making a Man in the middle device to do what you are thinking and some of the people who did the early work on the system said it was a no-go.

These are the same people who identified the abality to modify the firmware to start with, the work that C4Eva used to build his hacks from.

I have been trying to tell you that its been though of and rejected in the past as the hurdles, and the sheer cost to even begin to try and do this is excessive.
Do you know how expensive the tools are to even access the firmware to a hard drive are?
Let me ask you this.. If HDD hacking was so easy why are only WD drives supported by HDD-Hacker?

You're advice is noted, and I appreciate it. Right now, I'm not doing much of anything on this project, BUT, now that we have heard your thoughts, I want to see what xxpspmadxx is capable of. Perhaps he hasaccess to some of these expensive tools you mention, or perhaps another workaround altogether.

The point is this: If xxpspmadxx is still moving forward, knowing what you just told him, I'll support him in any way I can. While this project may not work out, or may not even be necessary in the future, there may be some other development that comes from this project. Successful or not, projects build communities, like xbox-scene, and they are fun and interesting. I don't know much about firmware coding at all, this is a great way to have a pointed direction for learning.

[xxpspmadxx]

CODE

    .686p
        .mmx
        .model flat

; Segment type:    Pure code
seg000        segment    byte public 'CODE' use32
        assume cs:seg000
        assume es:nothing, ss:nothing, ds:nothing, fs:nothing, gs:nothing
        db    2
        db    0
        db  30h; 0
        db    2
        db  34h; 4
        db 0EFh; ï
        db  4Ah; J
        db  4Ch; L
        db 0EFh; ï
        db  24h; $
        db  36h; 6
        db 0FFh
        db 0EEh; î
        db  34h; 4
        db  1Ch
        db 0FEh; þ
        db    2
        db  45h; E
        db 0A0h;  
        db    2
        db  51h; Q
        db 0A1h; ¡
        db  7Fh; 
        db    2
        db  12h

Also getting close to establishing a Team. So for thous who have been interested you will soon get the info needed to start going forward on this project.

[.:Dino:.]

hi there just read this thread and thought i would add my own opinion.
I think before you rush out trying to implement changes to firmwares and writing "dvd drive emulators" for the xbox 360 harddrive, please consider carefully what you plan to achieve.

Please please please dont draw comparison to the ixtreme firmwares. What makes the ixtreme firmware succesful and debatable as to wether ms can see them is the simplicity of the code. As c4e says, the ixtreme is very very similar to the original firmware.

Tryin to make hdd firmware to emulate a rom drive is going to be an unrealistic adventure. That said, if it were possible it would involve running unsigned code, which you currently cannot do, not forgetting adding a huge other layer where ms can poke around. When you consider to run backups from a harddrive, you are suggesting to spoof a dvd drive for a harddrive, and remap everything, all within the firmware of the drive?

Even if we forget this is not possible and assume that after years progress is made and the 360 trets the hdd as the dvd drive, are you still doing this within intentions of not being banned?

ms can detect the difference between drive firmwares, spoofing firmware = ban. What you are suggesting is to modify the firmware to appear as a compleltly different device remap all memory addresses and yet stil maintain that ms can not see it.

think again

[No_Name]

xxpspmadxx, you are over-simplifying the problem.

There are A HUGE number of differences between a OOD and a HDD.

[minus5252]

QUOTE(.:Dino:. @ May 7 2010, 04:25 PM)

hi there just read this thread and thought i would add my own opinion.
I think before you rush out trying to implement changes to firmwares and writing "dvd drive emulators" for the xbox 360 harddrive, please consider carefully what you plan to achieve.

Please please please dont draw comparison to the ixtreme firmwares. What makes the ixtreme firmware succesful and debatable as to wether ms can see them is the simplicity of the code. As c4e says, the ixtreme is very very similar to the original firmware.

Tryin to make hdd firmware to emulate a rom drive is going to be an unrealistic adventure. That said, if it were possible it would involve running unsigned code, which you currently cannot do, not forgetting adding a huge other layer where ms can poke around. When you consider to run backups from a harddrive, you are suggesting to spoof a dvd drive for a harddrive, and remap everything, all within the firmware of the drive?

Even if we forget this is not possible and assume that after years progress is made and the 360 trets the hdd as the dvd drive, are you still doing this within intentions of not being banned?

ms can detect the difference between drive firmwares, spoofing firmware = ban. What you are suggesting is to modify the firmware to appear as a compleltly different device remap all memory addresses and yet stil maintain that ms can not see it.

think again

While these are educated and interesting points, we'll worry more about MS detecting this after it is done. Also, seems it would be easy enough to have a switch to go between the HDD for offline play on the DVD drive for online play.

[juggahax0r]

QUOTE(No_Name @ May 7 2010, 08:31 PM)

xxpspmadxx, you are over-simplifying the problem.

There are A HUGE number of differences between a OOD and a HDD.

 This has gone on long enough don't you think? Moderators anyone. Stuff like this should be trashed as soon as it shows up. This cannot work for so many different reasons. Lets pretend it could for 1 second. You would have to modify your HDD , DVD-drive , and find another way to control the TRin TRout and Eject funtions. Create an HDD firmware that not only mimics the DVD drive but can also do it well enough to fake the Hypervisor , and to top it off their is no way to select the games inside the Dash without running a loader of some type. Have i named enough things yet to make you drop it already? If only 1 game on the drive at a time is possible why even bother? you plan on buying a bunch of drives?
If you can't even properly decompile code with IDA and post it you are not going to come close too getting anything along these lines working. Just so you know if you had actually posted the code that is illegal. The funtions and calls for an HDD and a DVD drive are completely different , even the internal mechanics are different.
 I won't doubt that you got an HDD to show up as a DVD drive on your PC but that is the point you need to consider it is a PC it is a PC it is a PC. You can tell a PC whatever you want , it isn't a question of hacking it you are just able to do that. If the firmware tells the PC that the HDD is a DVD drive it will believe it , the xbox 360 has other security measures in place to stop that from happening. drive response time is going to be another variable. Basically in the long run you are wasting your time for so many reasons.

You should try working on the USB drive 16gb limit if you want to do something people would be interested in.

 As said by the guy i quoted you are way over simplifying this process..Someone already toyed around with it and found it to be a no go shouldn't that be enough for you , someone better than you tried it and decided it was pointless.

[minus5252]

QUOTE(juggahax0r @ May 8 2010, 08:05 PM)

This has gone on long enough don't you think? Moderators anyone. Stuff like this should be trashed as soon as it shows up. This cannot work for so many different reasons. Lets pretend it could for 1 second. You would have to modify your HDD , DVD-drive , and find another way to control the TRin TRout and Eject funtions. Create an HDD firmware that not only mimics the DVD drive but can also do it well enough to fake the Hypervisor , and to top it off their is no way to select the games inside the Dash without running a loader of some type. Have i named enough things yet to make you drop it already? If only 1 game on the drive at a time is possible why even bother? you plan on buying a bunch of drives?
If you can't even properly decompile code with IDA and post it you are not going to come close too getting anything along these lines working. Just so you know if you had actually posted the code that is illegal. The funtions and calls for an HDD and a DVD drive are completely different , even the internal mechanics are different.
 I won't doubt that you got an HDD to show up as a DVD drive on your PC but that is the point you need to consider it is a PC it is a PC it is a PC. You can tell a PC whatever you want , it isn't a question of hacking it you are just able to do that. If the firmware tells the PC that the HDD is a DVD drive it will believe it , the xbox 360 has other security measures in place to stop that from happening. drive response time is going to be another variable. Basically in the long run you are wasting your time for so many reasons.

You should try working on the USB drive 16gb limit if you want to do something people would be interested in.

 As said by the guy i quoted you are way over simplifying this process..Someone already toyed around with it and found it to be a no go shouldn't that be enough for you , someone better than you tried it and decided it was pointless.

It wouldn't necessarily require a bunch of hard drives, a loader could essentially be essentially be built into the firmware.

[minus5252]

Okay, so for all the non-haters, I'll ask again: how can we help. If you've decided to move forward by yourself, say something, as I am tired of debating the merits of this projects without knowing anything.

As I said before, I am interested in helping, but am fast losing interest due to the lack of sharing.