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[MrFish]

QUOTE(Iriez @ Dec 23 2007, 07:08 AM)

As far as the fan mod, you people are taking it out of context. Those 3rd party add-on's will be no problem. but if you rewire your fan to a 12v power source, that MAY be a problem as you are physically altering the xbox360's hardware, which breaks the TOA.

I'm not so sure: There's no way in hell the 360 has a tiny voltmeter on the fan to tell what voltage it's being run at, so modification must be detected in a more indirect manner. Voltage drop on the 12v line/lack of drop on the 5v line is equally silly. The obvious things to be detecting are fan speed (does it have a sensor wire? If so, drop a clock-divider in the middle.) and the temperature of the components it cools.

Detecting the latter means that an intercooler (or, indeed, a duct to the outside) will get you banned too. Detecting the former means that an intercooler is fine, unless its airflow happens to interact with the internal fan in a suspicious way (It's certainly going to interact with the fan in some way, but will it push it past a manufacturing tolerance?).

As to Intercoolers and Live's TOS: while the obvious way to infringe the TOS is to infringe the clause 'and that your software and hardware have not been modified in any unauthorized way', there's also 'You agree that you are using authorized software and hardware to access the Service'. Is a random third-party add-on 'authorized hardware'? Ask a civil court.

So, if you do get banned for using an external device, you're probably not banned-banned, just have-to-go-and-beg/threaten-microsoft-to-unban-you-banned. But I imagine it would still be a big pain in the arse. And it would be a cracking way to get rid of users where there's suspicion, but no conclusive proof, that the box has been opened: "just ship it back to us so's we can check, and we'll unban you".

[MrFish]

QUOTE(syntaxerror329 @ Dec 22 2007, 06:21 AM)

Wow I just came here to post a message on this exact topic.

Current:
Talismoon Fan 160mA - Original Fan: 250mA
Speed: 4100RPM - Original Fan: 4600RPM

I have had a customer ask me to order a fan and install it. I have it right here. He does not have the firmware hack mainly because he fears being banned. Now i feel i have to tell him that he might get banned.

Does anyone know if i could add a resistor to somehow make the Talismoon appear to be drawing 250mA? I am sure some of you tech geeks here can figure this out with ohms law.

There's no way they're measuring the fan's current draw. That's just nuts. Fans are dynamic loads, so the current drawn will be all-over the shop. You'd have to average it, which would mean hardware just to read the fan current.

Anyway, this isn't really a techie question, but a GCSE physics one:

If we assume that the fan is a resistor (which it isn't), and it draws 160mA from a 5V rail, that means its 'resistance' is 5/0.16 = 31.25 ohms. The original fan was 5/0.25 = 20 ohms. So, we need to construct a resistor network with a total resistance of 20 ohms. We do this by putting a resistor of value x in parallel with the fan, such that the total resistance becomes 20 ohms.

For resistors in parallel, 1/Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2... +1/Rn.

1/20 = 1/31.25 + 1/x; 1/x = 1/20 - 1/31.25; 1/x = 0.018; x = 55.55555.... .

So, we stick a sixty-ohm resistor in parallel with the fan, and now the fan header draws 0.25 amps again.

Or at least it would if the fan were a resistor, which it isn't.

QUOTE(syntaxerror329 @ Dec 22 2007, 06:21 AM)

Then microsoft will probably say we banned you becuase your fan is going 5000 RPM too slow. LOL

Way, way more likely. Obvious solution: keep both fan types in, and feed the 360 the sensor wire from the original. Other suggestion: pot it from the twelve-volt line, and set the voltage so you get the correct RPM. Easiest way to measure would be to graft the sense wire onto a disused PC's motherboard.

[ShaX5]

Ok, so whats the likeliness that MS would detect a whisper fan?

-ShaX

[Chancer]

Anyone here been banned for a 12v fan Mod?
Nothing else modded, no firmware just a FAN MOD?
Even if you were unbanned subsequently.

[ydgmms]

Nil for me. I've been running Talismoons in my Xbox since pre-Ban Wav #1. It did get banned though, but I bet it was the NME chip. The Talismoon is in another Xbox that has yet to be banned. It was stock, then when iXtreme 1.0 came out, its been that. So I doubt they're banning for FANS... thats just crazy talk.


Oh. I also have another fan running at 7V, 12V-5V.

iXtreme 1.3A (Couldn't update to 1.4 - but all my backups are ripped myself and pass all checks including kreon checker)

This post has been edited by ydgmms: Dec 25 2007, 01:06 AM

[Iriez]

QUOTE(darylzero @ Dec 24 2007, 04:39 PM)

I don't even know who you are.  My problem with the post was the tone of it as well as "information" that could be perceived incorrectly.  Look at how many people are talking about Nyko fan mods when all you meant was actual fans added via the motherboard.
I would think that the question everyone wants answered is - Can you go online (right now) with perfect backup discs (everything CRC wise, Kreon wise, and everything else checks out) and not be banned?
I know someone that has  iextreme v1.0 flashed since the first banhammer and he is still active.
He would like to know whether he can play perfect backups online as of right now and not be banned.
Oh yeah, and don't tell me to not give x-s or you a hard time.  If you get that pissy at someone speaking his mind, then you need to take a step back and kill yourself.  Merry Christmas everyone!

Congratulations on not knowing who I am. However, if you have bothered to read x-s news for the past 3-4 years, I post quite frequently.

I *specifically* stated in my post

QUOTE

You CAN have your console banned for having a 12v fan mod

I very specifically stated '12v' in my post. I did not say 'nyko' coolers, or '3rd party addons'. This is a xbox modding site, and if you read it and you dont know wtf your doing, then its your own fault that your ignorance leads you to believe other than what it really is. I do not condone, nor do I cater, to such crowds.

To answer your question...

I have already answered it. Read this thread, because it contains much valuable information that I have posted. If you cannot come to your answer from my posts, then dont bother reading or responding to any more of my threads.

Remember, we dont get pissy at people speaking their minds, we get pissy when people dont bother to read the relevent information we have spent our valuable time posting, and instead post again and again asking for us to repost that information solely for YOUR information.

QUOTE(ydgmms @ Dec 24 2007, 07:00 PM)

Nil for me. I've been running Talismoons in my Xbox since pre-Ban Wav #1. It did get banned though, but I bet it was the NME chip. The Talismoon is in another Xbox that has yet to be banned. It was stock, then when iXtreme 1.0 came out, its been that. So I doubt they're banning for FANS... thats just crazy talk.
Oh. I also have another fan running at 7V, 12V-5V.

iXtreme 1.3A (Couldn't update to 1.4 - but all my backups are ripped myself and pass all checks including kreon checker)

As crazy as it sounds, it came directly from a xbox live customer rep's mouth.

Now, could this just be a uninformed or ignorant customer rep? Possibly. Really bad day and pulling shit through  his teeth? Likely.

But, i never discount what these retards tell me if they say it straight out like that, no matter how insane it sounds.

[ghettoc401]

One thing that I thought about was that even if the rep was talking out of his ass, how did he know that the trusted source modded his fans? I mean, think about it...

It would be one thing for the rep to just say it and it were'nt true, but he said that he was banned for having modded his fans, and he in fact did have his fans hooked up to a 12v source. I dont thinks its a weird coincidence either.

I think its a dumb reason to ban people, but they seem to be able to detect it because the rep was quick to tell our trusted source why he was banned.

This post has been edited by ghettoc401: Dec 25 2007, 08:02 PM

[Digital_sin]

I doubt that the rep told the guy straight out that he was banned for modding his fan, what might have happened is that that guy told the rep that all he did to his 360 was mod it's fan (to try and get himself unbanned or something), and the rep told him that that's probably why he was banned.

[Iriez]

QUOTE(Digital_sin @ Dec 25 2007, 02:36 PM)

I doubt that the rep told the guy straight out that he was banned for modding his fan, what might have happened is that that guy told the rep that all he did to his 360 was mod it's fan (to try and get himself unbanned or something), and the rep told him that that's probably why he was banned.

No.

It is exactly as i stated.

QUOTE(the_nerdy @ Dec 25 2007, 03:46 PM)

He never said he got banned,  he just said the customer rep told him he had a fan mod.
He is still unbanned.   That is what you need to listen too, reread the article.

Looks like YOU are the one that needs to read the article He is banned.

[Digital_sin]

QUOTE(Iriez @ Dec 26 2007, 06:04 PM)

No.

It is exactly as i stated.
Looks like YOU are the one that needs to read the article He is banned.

LOL, yeah.... I guess I had one to many stellas.  

My bad  

[zerhacker]

I've got a question. Is it needed to check the Images with Kreonchecker if I have ixtreme 1.4?

[Iriez]

QUOTE(zerhacker @ Dec 27 2007, 04:59 AM)

I've got a question. Is it needed to check the Images with Kreonchecker if I have ixtreme 1.4?

no

[rave-m2s]

QUOTE(wumbo65 @ Dec 22 2007, 06:10 AM)

i just got banned today.  it's funny though that a backup hasn't touched my xbox in a few months.  all i have been playing rock band and guitar hero(the legit ones).  anyone know what happened?

See now this is what concerns ME! because it brings many questions.

If you have only been playing your originals, was it the modded firmware that got you banned?

were you flagged previously while playing backups then got caught sometime later during a ban sweep?,  

is there altered save game data being stored on the HARD DRIVE ( that is exclusive to backups or the firmware mod that got you banned?

Could it have something to do with the READ speed of a modded disc drive? even when playing originals?

could a second UNmodified Disc drive be connected (switchable for data and power and possibly an ethernet ON/OFF ) so that you can you can go on LIVE safely with your ORIGINALS  or is a secondary factory fresh 360 console the best and ONLY investment for someone looking to go LIVE?  

I might just take my own advice and purchase a second console strictly for ONLINE play with my originals. I can go with the BASIC set up and maybe use the HD from my modded unit as needed ( unless my theory of tainted save game data is a possibility).    

too many questions I know but just throwing some New perspective out there that may not have been explored previously.

[rave-m2s]

I've seen several threads concerning buying USED or PRE Owned 360 consoles.  If the previous owner Modded the unit in any manner that would flag the console (whether they themselves was previously banned using that console or NOT)  and sold it to another person and that second party had NO knowlege of the changes then  Microsoft it essentially telling the consumer that buying a pre owned unit is a violation of the Terms of Service for online play as well.  

BUYER BEWARE ?  Not when our entire society has a culture of buying and selling pre owned goods, it would be pretty silly for microsoft to impose a punishment on a second party owner who had no ill intent.  Its like throwing the VICTIM in prison when you can't catch the offender.    Is there a current class action suit by "legitimate" pre-owned console purchasers who have been affected by these ban sweeps?   I know it seems like everyone is aware that consoles can and are being modified with unlawful intent but I think its NOT common knowledge and a person buying a pre owned unit in MOST cases have no idea that their legitimate cost saving purchase may one day affect their ability to play ONLINE.  

The whole concept of rendering a unit permanently UNUSABLE for online play seems pretty stupid to me.  

For example:  DARK Tinted car windows will get you a hefty fine in Massachussets, but you KNOW why you are getting the fine and your vehicle isn't impounded permanently.   Pay the fine, get the tint off and you're free to continue using the car on public roadways.  It's a KNOWN law, so if you bought the car second hand you KNOW you need to so something about those tints or risk the fine.  which again has no PERMANENCE.  They don't make you buy a new car.  

Has Microsoft ever even made a formal statement on the PURPOSE of banning a console? I'm new to the whole 360 arena so pardon my ignorance.   As a method to prevent cheating ?( since there appears to be some kind of rewards and points system on LIVE, again, never been there so I'm not too keen on how the whole thing works)  Which would seem like a legitimate concern but clearly not as means to thwart illegal procurement and use of intellectual/creative properties.   Or am I missing something?

[Analyzer52]

Well after reading all 10 pages of this I will finally comment. Here is my experience:

Yesterday 12/26/2007 at about 5pm est I went to sign into live to play a madden game online and could not get log in. I figured it was just a connection problem until it happened a second time, so I test the connection and get the failed message for xbox live. So I’m like damn they probably got me and I come here to check what’s going on and see people are getting ban. So at this point I think there is no hope for getting online with this modded box, but I say what the hell give it another try doesn’t connect the first time but does the second time and I get logged in. Only thing it would not do is connect to MSN massager but who cares.  I played the game of madden and then got offline. I decide I should probably upgrade to have any hope of staying on live so, I upgraded from 3.1 or 3.2 ixtreme for a Samsung to 1.4 ixtreme for Samsung (I have an MS28 I think it’s the one you have to turn off to force flash) and I’m still able to get on line and playback ups as of 3am est this morning. I madden I have is a back because the disc drive some how scratched my original of that and ncaa I still have not figure out how that happened.  

I have an old Hitachi that got banned during the first wave of banning I’m going to hot air gun it tonight see if I can get it working again and then flash to original and see if I can get that one back online, can’t hurt to try.