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[VanydotK]

QUOTE(Kreon @ Dec 6 2007, 01:35 AM)

OK.....I think it's time to put an end to this madness. Toddler described the problem quite accurately in an earlier post....
The problem is not really related to any of my firmware releases, except for the fact that they are more likely to return an angle of 359 in the SS. The jitter implementation in any of the current iXtreme and Xtreme firmwares does not handle wrapping of angles above 359 correctly, which can lead to an angle of 360 or more being returned by the firmware. Since any value above 359 is out of bounds, it is rather easy to detect, but it will only happen when the SS contains an angle of 359 and the (I)xtreme jitter adds a value of 1 or more to this angle. Only the combination of a 359 angle in the SS and a jitter value of 1 or more being added to this angle will result in an invalid value - this is also the most probable the cause for some people getting banned and some staying clear, even if they're playing the same release of a game.
 
The upcoming (I)xtreme firmware releases will include a fix for the missing angle wrapping. With this in place, I expect the problem to be solved once and for all.

To sum it all up, there is no such thing as a bad Kreon rip. The only truth to this is, that rips made using any of the Kreon firmwares are more likely to include that very unfortunate 359 angle, that will make the (I)xtreme firmwares return invalid angle values from time to time.

Please stop panicing and stay cool til we know if the new (I)xtreme firmwares have solved the problem.

/Kreon

first post after kreon!

Thanks for the info

[deanh]

one thing that confuses me should all backups have a split vid to be safe, and older backups with out this have to be re burnt.

[staple123]

I disagree totally!

BOTH KREON v1.00 and C4EVa ixtereme 1.2 etc... are both equally flawed and its this "combination" of potential errors that is causing this cascading banhammer problem:

I quote KREON:

"rips made using any of the Kreon firmwares are more likely to include that very unfortunate 359 angle"

That's means your software too is also flawed you said it yourself...so don't be soo sure your NOT partially to blame...

so in effect your leaving the backdoor open for improper recognition by Ixtereme....sure C4eva made the initial mistake, but your KREON .81 and 1.00 software are BOTH allowing this  ixtereme disk jittre problem to be cascading and you were NOT screening for it properly with KREON.

The minute I read this I suspected the easisest fix is NEW KREON and then rebuild ALL our game libary ISO's...i still belive that is is the only safe solutiuon...and hoping for a new Ixtereme to cloak our already flawed KREON rips is ludicrous and very dangerous...the less we rely on ixtereme to cloak bad KREON rips the better.

so BOTH Kreon and C4eva are to blame for this mistake...it is NOT one or the other...both you guys are NOT working closely enough together...his software is vulnerablke if your rips are not 100% accurate.

this is the way I interpret it...both you guys NEED to update your software...not one or the other but BOTH!

we will need KREON firmware that anticipates this random 359 angle mistake and adds redudancy checks to filter out after a comprehensive ISO verification to ensure it not included in the intial rip.

WHY ARE YOU WAITING FOR C4EVA to release a fix, you need to release a new KREON first before he can cloak ariund your problem...and if you can't do it then release your SOURCE CODE publically to others so we can manage this problem moving forward.  Stop waiting for him to fix your Kreon ripping problems?[/b]

can you compile new Keon v1.1 to add redundancy checks for that potential random adulterating 359 angle issue and filter them out so we can use old ixterem1.2 safely and NOT wait for C4eva to release a spoofing workaround fix.

this reminds me of the same problem with SplitVid...C4eva, RedLine and Kreon are NOT talking to each other guys and this is why this "mysterious 359 angle" has apperaed on the scene so abruptly...I wonder just how many more potential "ripping" issues remain unknown?

my trust in KREON is dropping rapidly expecially after I what I just read from him...and it apears after this fiasco that we will all need to rebuild our entire libarries and use the 360 internal DVD to re-rip our libaries properly.....who knows what other flaws remain from those KREON rips bceause if they exists I have no doubt that any ixterem will project us agianst a a flawed KREON rip.


advice:

1. buy an external SATA enclosure ($40)
2. buy an MS28 Samsung--flash it with latest ixtreme ($50-75)
2. re-rip your entire libaries using a 'REAL' samsung MS28 360 DVD player and avoid KREON at all costs.

this is exactly what I intend to do, I have NO TRUST anymore in Kreon expecially after thos contradcitory statements I just read..he is letitng C4eva fix all our problems.

this fiasco means we need to remove KREON drives from our RIPPING equation IMHO.

This post has been edited by staple123: Dec 6 2007, 02:20 AM

[Kreon]

QUOTE(staple123 @ Dec 6 2007, 02:06 AM)

I disagree totally!

BOTH KREON v1.00 and C4EVa ixtereme 1.2 etc... are both equally flawed and its this "combination" of potential errors that is causing this cascading banhammer problem:

I quote KREON:

"rips made using any of the Kreon firmwares are more likely to include that very unfortunate 359 angle"

That's means your software too is also flawed you said it yourself...so don't be soo sure your NOT partially to blame...

so in effect your leaving the backdoor open for improper recognition by Ixtereme....sure C4eva made the initial mistake, but your KREON .81 and 1.00 software are BOTH allowing this  ixtereme disk jittre problem to be cascading and you were NOT screening for it properly with KREON.

The minute I read this I suspected the easisest fix is NEW KREON and then rebuild ALL our game libary ISO's...i still belive that is is the only safe solutiuon...and hoping for a new Ixtereme to cloak our already flawed KREON rips is ludicrous and very dangerous...the less we rely on ixtereme to cloak bad KREON rips the better.

so BOTH Kreon and C4eva are to blame for this mistake...it is NOT one or the other...both you guys are NOT working closely enough together...his software is vulnerablke if your rips are not 100% accurate.

this is the way I interpret it...both you guys NEED to update your software...not one or the other but BOTH!

we will need KREON firmware that anticipates this random 359 angle mistake and adds redudancy checks to filter out after a comprehensive ISO verification to ensure it not included in the intial rip.

WHY ARE YOU WAITING FOR C4EVA to release a fix, you need to release a new KREON first before he can cloak ariund your problem...and if you can't do it then release your SOURCE CODE publically to others so we can manage this problem moving forward.  Stop waiting for him to fix your Kreon ripping problems?[/b]

can you compile new Keon v1.1 to add redundancy checks for that potential random adulterating 359 angle issue and filter them out so we can use old ixterem1.2 safely and NOT wait for C4eva to release a spoofing workaround fix.

this reminds me of the same problem with SplitVid...C4eva, RedLine and Kreon are NOT talking to each other guys and this is why this "mysterious 359 angle" has apperaed on the scene so abruptly.

Gosh....are you stupid or something?? I really shouldn't comment on this, since you do not seem to have any idea what you're talking about. Well...anyway...I can't really fix the problem.....no matter what I do. I could make changes to my firmware, that would exclude the 359 angle to be present in any future rips, but please bear in mind that for most older games, the 359 angle can be found in SS files extracted on an OEM 360 DVD drive as well. For these older releases, even if ripped using a 360 drive, the current (I)xtreme firmwares will still return invalid values, but no one seems to have been banned on this basis yet.

This is really not about who to blame - if you're playing backups, you're always at risc. If you're not willing to accept the risc, I strongly suggest that you stay away from playing backups of any kind in the future.

/Kreon

[the soul poet]

QUOTE(staple123 @ Dec 6 2007, 01:06 AM)

I disagree totally!

BOTH KREON v1.00 and C4EVa ixtereme 1.2 etc... are both equally flawed and its this "combination" of potential errors that is causing this cascading banhammer problem:

I quote KREON:

"rips made using any of the Kreon firmwares are more likely to include that very unfortunate 359 angle"

That's means your software too is also flawed you said it yourself...so don't be soo sure your NOT partially to blame...

so in effect your leaving the backdoor open for improper recognition by Ixtereme....sure C4eva made the initial mistake, but your KREON .81 and 1.00 software are BOTH allowing this  ixtereme disk jittre problem to be cascading and you were NOT screening for it properly with KREON.

The minute I read this I suspected the easisest fix is NEW KREON and then rebuild ALL our game libary ISO's...i still belive that is is the only safe solutiuon...and hoping for a new Ixtereme to cloak our already flawed KREON rips is ludicrous and very dangerous...the less we rely on ixtereme to cloak bad KREON rips the better.

so BOTH Kreon and C4eva are to blame for this mistake...it is NOT one or the other...both you guys are NOT working closely enough together...his software is vulnerablke if your rips are not 100% accurate.

this is the way I interpret it...both you guys NEED to update your software...not one or the other but BOTH!

we will need KREON firmware that anticipates this random 359 angle mistake and adds redudancy checks to filter out after a comprehensive ISO verification to ensure it not included in the intial rip.

WHY ARE YOU WAITING FOR C4EVA to release a fix, you need to release a new KREON first before he can cloak ariund your problem...and if you can't do it then release your SOURCE CODE publically to others so we can manage this problem moving forward.  Stop waiting for him to fix your Kreon ripping problems?[/b]

can you compile new Keon v1.1 to add redundancy checks for that potential random adulterating 359 angle issue and filter them out so we can use old ixterem1.2 safely and NOT wait for C4eva to release a spoofing workaround fix.

this reminds me of the same problem with SplitVid...C4eva, RedLine and Kreon are NOT talking to each other guys and this is why this "mysterious 359 angle" has apperaed on the scene so abruptly...I wonder just how many more potential "ripping" issues remain unknown?

my trust in KREON is dropping rapidly expecially after I what I just read from him...and it apears after this fiasco that we will all need to rebuild our entire libarries and use the 360 internal DVD to re-rip our libaries properly.....who knows what other flaws remain from those KREON rips bceause if they exists I have no doubt that any ixterem will project us agianst a a flawed KREON rip.
advice:

1. buy an external SATA enclosure ($40)
2. buy an MS28 Samsung--flash it with latest ixtreme ($50-75)
2. re-rip your entire libaries using a 'REAL' samsung MS28 360 DVD player and avoid KREON at all costs.

this is exactly what I intend to do, I have NO TRUST anymore in Kreon expecially after thos contradcitory statements I just read..he is letitng C4eva fix all our problems.

this fiasco means we need to remove KREON drives from our RIPPING equation IMHO.

Your lack of full fact blaming is starting to annoy me.


C4eva, Kreon do a great deal for us.  They do this by choice for free. Instead of saying what they need to do etc, try gather more facts.  Kreon rips produce different angle variables on the SS.bin.  M$ changed something that's why this is evident.

Instead of being disrespectful, why don't you notice this fact?  Kreon/C4eva can not account for every possible variable or change Microsoft can make.

Do your method that you feel safe with but stop getting up peoples backs on a public forum.

[Mike4]

I've been trying to follow this topic as closely as possible, but it's tough when there are 20 pages of posts, so I'm not sure if my story is even necessary, but I thought it might be helpful - and possibly even relevant - if I shared my experience.

To start off, no - I have not been banned yet.

I somehow survived the initial wave and I wasn't sure how, but most likely it's because I only had one game that wasn't stealthed and I had only played it once, for about 5 minutes or so (and not on Live).  I had upgraded to the latest firmware right before that first ban wave (I think it was iXtreme at that point) and did not even play my XBOX at all until the dust started to settle and I felt it was safe.

Now to the latest bannings.  I was on vacation when they happened and my XBOX hadn't even been plugged in for a few weeks.  I was pretty sure I wasn't banned yet, but I had no way of telling if I would be banned when I returned from vacation and eventually turned it on.  Also, I was a little worried because I was pretty sure I didn't have the absolute newest firmware (I have iXtreme 1.2).  Regardless, when I got back from vacation, there was still no update, so I didn't even plug it in until there was some good news and I thought I had a chance of surviving.  When this update did come out, I was initially worried because I have a couple of games on that list that may possibly be a "bad Kreon rip."  I checked every one of my games, though, and was very happy to find that I didn't have a single game with a "bad Kreon rip."  

I figured if the bannings were triggered by the "bad Kreon rip," I would be ok.  If not, I figured I was probably already screwed at that point, so last night I finally fired it up so I could get the new Fall update.  I am happy to report that I had no problem getting the new dashboard and I have not been banned.  Of course, I have no clue whether the ban would take place right away or not, but I had my XBOX connected for well over an hour last night with no problem.
 

Some other notes:

• Because I like to design my own disc art and print them directly to the discs, I have only used Ritek RiData or Playo inkjet printable DVD+R DL discs.  The only disc I ever used with a shiny top was a Memorex and that was my first test to see if I could get a backup running.  I'm sure this irrelevant, but I thought I should mention it.
• I've upgraded the firmware a few times when new versions are released, but every time I've done it, I've always flashed back to the original firmware first.  I'm not sure if this means anything either, but I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that it's probably a good idea.

[TorchMach1]

QUOTE(staple123 @ Dec 5 2007, 07:06 PM)

my trust in KREON is dropping rapidly expecially after I what I just read from him...and it apears after this fiasco that we will all need to rebuild our entire libarries and use the 360 internal DVD to re-rip our libaries properly.....who knows what other flaws remain from those KREON rips bceause if they exists I have no doubt that any ixterem will project us agianst a a flawed KREON rip.

Wow.  Do I speak for everyone when I say..."what a dick!"?  If you're so great, and knowledgeable, why not make your own firmware??  I love the "experts" who call out the hard working individuals who give us their work for free and ask nothing in return.  Without them, none of us would be enjoying the hobby we are.  I give my thanks to Kreon, C4Eva, Schtrom, and everyone else who give so much and ask for nothing!

[knodi]

staple123 shut the fuck up you moron. Should be great full for the shit C4eva and Kreon do for us FOR FREE.

People believe KREON then this moron staple123.

If you flash your drive or play backups that its the risk YOU took. If something happens you have only your self to blame.

This post has been edited by knodi: Dec 6 2007, 02:46 AM

[Mike4]

QUOTE(TorchMach1 @ Dec 5 2007, 08:38 PM)

Wow.  Do I speak for everyone when I say..."what a dick!"?  If you're so great, and knowledgeable, why not make your own firmware??  I love the "experts" who call out the hard working individuals who give us their work for free and ask nothing in return.  Without them, none of us would be enjoying the hobby we are.  I give my thanks to Kreon, C4Eva, Schtrom, and everyone else who give so much and ask for nothing!

I completely agree.  I hate when a few bad seeds ruin it for the rest of us.  It's a good thing I'm not coding firmware, because I would probably quit after a bs post like that.  Nobody should have to put up with that... especially someone who goes out of their way to create something for free to help others.  Unbelievable.

Let me just take this opportunity to thank all of you that have put in the effort to make any of this possible.

[Mozbius]

Ok people calm down here... Everybody do have valuable points but there's no need to escalate.

Kreon and Stapple thank you for your time investment in the current matter.


Everybody is now free to follow which way to go and do their thing while knowing the possible consequences.

On one side : You have the opportunity of redoing everything from scratch while using the original 360 dvd drive and cross your fingers.

On the other side : You can simply reflash and go with the flow and cross your fingers.

But in any cases don't think that you're completely safe. Kreon, C4A and the others only know so much. So I think that it is ok to say that there may very well be more Bans to come whether you choose one way or the other simply because Microsoft more about the 360 than anyone.

So for now do whatever you can to cover your butts
and go live to show everybody who rocks!

(ok that was a lame rhyme! lol!)

[deanh]

So does anyone no if older backups need to be redone with sptitvid thank you

[jotavip]

Hi!

I checked a Need for Speed Pro Street rip with KreonChecker, and it gave me as the SS is a Bad Kreon Rip.

But, when I use the AutoFix in xdvdmulleter, it says that the ISO is perfect and no need for fixing. Ayone knows how can I fix this SS.bin file?

Thanks

[the soul poet]

QUOTE(jotavip @ Dec 6 2007, 02:10 AM)

Hi!

I checked a Need for Speed Pro Street rip with KreonChecker, and it gave me as the SS is a Bad Kreon Rip.

But, when I use the AutoFix in xdvdmulleter, it says that the ISO is perfect and no need for fixing. Ayone knows how can I fix this SS.bin file?

Thanks

Re-rip from your original again.

 

[House of EL]

You know staple, some would be more open to your thoughts if you would attempt to be less demanding and more supportive. That kind of attitude isn't going to get you anywhere with anyone. Sure there was an unforseen glitch in the system, but unless you can do it better, you really have no right to complain.

If you don't like it, don't use it my friend.

[kenwood90]

i dont get my most recent game was prg4 and i have played it no bannings but are we talking about with this new dashbaord update becuase i havent updated yet im holding it off but in the mean time it signes me out, Should i update? And how do i use kreon checker?