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[Xbox-Scene]

Xbox360 LIVE Bans Info and iXtreme Online FW WIP Posted by XanTium | May 21 23:43 EST | News Category: Xbox360

Here are some details about the Xbox360 LIVE bans I got directly and indirectly from GaryOPA, Commodore4eva (C4E), Iriez and others. Of course don't take any of this info as 100% confirmed, noone knows exactly based on what data MS is banning ... it's just an analysis of what they think is happening and what MS might/can be checking. C4E thinks MS is probably detecting and banning consoles from LIVE by tracking usage of backups via timing of the challenge response (c/r) on the drive over the last few weeks or months. A modified FW will reply much faster to the the Challenges requests (stored in a table) than an original firmware (seek on drive). They probably do this test more than once and can ban you if you're above a certain average. FuzzyLogic also found that microsoft is sometimes doing additional checks on discs: PFI/DMI (so images without these sectors (or if using an old FWs without support for PFI/DMI) can probably be detected easily), drive inquiry (reads ascii string from drive), and capacity (reports capacity of disc) are requested. Strange thing here is MS requests 0x8000 bytes for PFI and DMI, while it should normally be 0x0800 bytes. TheSpecialist pointed out that the remaining 0x7800 bytes contains the relocated SS and PFI on burned discs ... which would make it very easy to detect backups for MS. C4E however told us this would not work on TS drives as its cut off to 0800 even if more data is asked, it's unconfirmed how modified HLG FWs drives respond to this atm. The "read capacity check" will also work as detection on HLG because, unlike the newest TS FWs, it doesn't have true 'stealth media' yet, these drives are reporting back the burned disc based size of PFI instead of the correct PFI. Apparently there's also an issue with SS (Security Sector) extracted from Hitachi-LG, some necessary data is screwed ... which means that probably only the Toshiba-Samsung / Kreon setup has been extracting correct SS. Another thing they are probably detecting (but probably not using yet to decide to ban or not) and log/flag is if you ever booted your Xbox360 with DVD SATA cable not connected to your Xbox360 (E64). Many people did this to power their drive when they wanted to flash it (power connected to 360, SATA to PC). So it's highly suggested to use an external power to flash next time. It's also possible MS also bans based on stuff like bad credit card info for your country, running a NTSC machine with euro-address/credit card (or inverse), having out-of-region (arcade) games and demos on your HDD, unofficial 360 HDD, internet downloaded gamesaves etc. There's no clear view on all this yet. For now, C4E believes Microsoft is not detecting modified FWs or detecting FW changes/updates. Using a special FW they did not detect any debug commands sent to the drive by MS  (they went through the dash/kernel updates with the special FW as well and did not detect any debug commands there either). So they think either: A/ MS is not doing any FW detection right now, and only previously (maybe on request of MS servers while playing on LIVE?), or B/ MS is banning based only on the timings of the drive, ss/pfi/dmi checks, capacity, drive inquiry and c/r verification. We also got information C4E is working on an "iXtreme Online" FW for Toshiba-Samsung drives, a Hitachi-LG version and maybe even BenQ version might follow later. The new FW will have less features than the current Xtreme FWs: no single-layer (DVD5) support, no ripping of games (0800 mode), but more features to safely play from burned discs (emulate the exact speed and timings of the original games) and prevent booting from un-safe discs (without PFI and DMI or bad SS - so discs not passing the 'Stealth Check' (using Xbox Backup Creator(info) for example) are not going to boot on the new firmware), or images that aren't exact dumps of the original. There's no official ETA (maybe this weekend though for TS drives), and of course no guarantee MS will never ban you based on new checks (that's the risk it takes if you want to be part of the modding community ) The HLG FW will take a bit longer as it'll require true 'Stealth media' etc added. This new FW will of course be made mostly for new consoles being modded, because even if you're not banned from LIVE yet there's no way to know if MS already has info/logs on your console ID regarding timings or other stuff so even changing to this new firmware in the near future may not stop that console ID from being banned in the next wave of MS bans. If your console is not banned yet, it's highly suggested you don't boot any burned discs, originals should be ok, even when offline (MS might be storing results of some checks in flash), until the release of the new FW. If your console is already banned this will of course not help you ... just enjoy the offline playing on that console for now (with some games you could try using 3rd party networks like XLink Kai(info)) and maybe some day a new exploit will allow you to do more with that console. To end with ... X-Scene's obvious tip of the month: don't buy 2nd hand Xbox360 consoles

[magic_man185]

so if we were lucky enough to not get banned, but have previously played burned disks, then we should not even play backups offline?  Because of possible detection by kernel?

[XanTium]

QUOTE(magic_man185 @ May 22 2007, 05:49 AM)

so if we were lucky enough to not get banned, but have previously played burned disks, then we should not even play backups offline?  Because of possible detection by kernel?

it's probably possible (some) of these checks are done by the kernel and could be logged into flash ... so even playing burned discs offline is a risk if you don't want to get banned from LIVE.

[ikecomp]

QUOTE(magic_man185 @ May 21 2007, 10:49 PM)

so if we were lucky enough to not get banned, but have previously played burned disks, then we should not even play backups offline?  Because of possible detection by kernel?

yep, apparently this is where the information is stored and can be requested by MS (through live) at any time so playing offline with backups will do you no good because the information is still stored whether you're online or not.

[nuke field ET]

I hope to hell my 360 can hold out against the banning spree until this new firmware comes out.  Currently unbanned still with an elite 360 w/78fk; just got done playing my backup of crackdown offline, and just signed into live a few minutes ago...

[restricted4545]

school me on this

i have an non flashed TS
when the new FW is released would it be "safer" to flash with say the blaster360, which is an external powering solution?

sorry if i'm way off

TIA

[zal91]

Cool, I just traded my un-banned modded Hitachi 360 for my friends un-modded ms28. I should be good to go.

[PerfectGun]

Ahhh the big mouths of the internet strike again!  Can't even keep quiet about this until the damn thing is released...  MS Thanks you for your complete coverage of C4E's working so it can be defeated day 1.

This place is crawling with narcs and you post this info...  pfftt

[nickolasj80]

The article states that the new FW won't be able to read DVD5, what about xbox1 single layers?

[Muzzakus]

QUOTE(PerfectGun @ May 22 2007, 04:08 AM)

Ahhh the big mouths of the internet strike again!  Can't even keep quiet about this until the damn thing is released...  MS Thanks you for your complete coverage of C4E's working so it can be defeated day 1.

This place is crawling with narcs and you post this info...  pfftt

You're a fool.  This is the scene, it's all open and transparent - no secrcey and tricks.  That's M$'s game.  

Let the information flow, and thanks to the Boys for shedding light on the situation and for busting their chops on a solution.  

Death to corporation, Long live the Scene.

[XanTium]

QUOTE(PerfectGun @ May 22 2007, 06:08 AM)

Ahhh the big mouths of the internet strike again!  Can't even keep quiet about this until the damn thing is released...  MS Thanks you for your complete coverage of C4E's working so it can be defeated day 1.

This place is crawling with narcs and you post this info...  pfftt

if the FW is released, the binary is available for anyone ... do you really think MS doesn't have the right people to analyze it? We aren't telling anything MS can't find out themselves.

[blue_calx]

QUOTE(nickolasj80 @ May 22 2007, 12:17 AM)

The article states that the new FW won't be able to read DVD5, what about xbox1 single layers?

 are you fucking serious? re-read your question

[PerfectGun]

QUOTE(Muzzakus @ May 21 2007, 09:18 PM)

You're a fool.  This is the scene, it's all open and transparent - no secrcey and tricks.  That's M$'s game.  

Let the information flow, and thanks to the Boys for shedding light on the situation and for busting their chops on a solution.  

Death to corporation, Long live the Scene.

That's the exact reason I say that.. It's like a chess game at this point and MS will always have the upper hand when information like this is readily available.  That's the difference, MS security keeps their mouths shut.  You have to rely on secrecy and tricks to stay one step ahead and you are the fool for making a statement like  "it's all open and transparent - no secrecy and tricks".  It's all about the tricks!

All posts like this do is satisfy the "noob" curiousity and ends up in a thread of usually stupid questions..  I think someone needs to lock a certain IRC channel so it's invite only.   And the other information was being discussed on another website I'm sure MS are familiar with but at least they don't make it front page news and then have digg pick it up...  

I've been in the scene for MANY years before the internet is what it is today and it always thrived on being in the shadows..  But I guess those days are over and your long live the scene is stupid.. I've been watching it die slowly for a long time and things like this makes it worse..

Oh well.. I guess the damage is done..

[blue_calx]

Is there a guide on how to make a ODD adapter similar to the Xecuter connectivity kit?

I don't want to buy that whole kit if all i need is to get the xbox360 drive adapted to a molex connection.

Note: I tried searching around and couldn't find one.

[kylec2425]

Yes this has indeed been something that has confused many of us, Me personally i think it has to be the fact that it registers some kind of data to the console and microsoft can some how recognize it, AND the media read speed that differs from using a retail disc aside from a back up you made from the disc you own.

I'm strongly looking forward to this new firmware update, and wont have any problem buying another system and testing out the new firmware, i hate microsoft for their dictation on how we use our own hardware that we pay money for, but hey... when you're money hungry you go all out...