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[apw100]

Hypothesis 1.

MS still cant see what firmware is installed on a 360. They also cannot tell the difference between a backup, and an original disc. What they can do is install a monitoring application on the 360 hard drive(or that stores the info on the hard drive). Using this, they can run certain checks. For example, if the program logs that the 360 was powered on, but the DVD was not connected via the SATA port, this would raise a red flag(the 360 was being used to power the dvd drive during a firmware flash). This test and a number of others could be run to determine(with a fair degree of certainty) that the Terms Of Use had been violated.  They don't really have to know that you have modded the firmware, they just have to know that you have cracked open the console's case and screwed around with it. That would be enough for them to confidently ban you due to Terms Of Use violations.

How to prove/disprove this?
-Find out how many people with Core systems have been banned. If they have been banned, and have never had a hard drive installed(or memory card) then the hypothesis is probably incorrect.

-Find people who have modded firmware, but haven't connected to Live since before the Spring Update. Have them remove their hard drives, then have them log into Live and do the Spring Update. Not banned? Ok, good. Now try playing a backed up game. Still not banned? Now, put the hard drive back in, and repeat. If they get banned, then there might be something to the hypothesis.

[Teamx420]

right heres whats happened with me

i've got an ms28 that was flashed with 4.2 straight out of the box. I've run that right up untill 5.3 which i installed before accepting the spring update (about three days after its release).

I've played quite a lot of scene releases on 4.2 and at about the same time as the spring update i was playing C&C in single player mode. After I updated I played a couple of games of C&C on live last saturday. Since then I've not played on live, but its worth noting that (foolishly) xbox live logs in at boot. I also had the box on the entire evening of the first wave of bans watching media center. And to top it off the C&C DVD-R has been in the drive all of last week untill i took it out after read XS

I am not however a scene junkie. I dont download games as soon as they come out so its unlikely i've played anything before its release date. This could be important. But I do know however that I was playing C&C close to its release date but i dont know that date or exactly when i started playing it. Not much help there.

After all this, I am at time of writing NOT Banned (test xboxlive! method). Go figure

It seems to me that all flavours of drive and firmware are affected at this time. I am not too convinced about the banning with delay theory, surely we'd all go at once. Although its true historically this might not be the case. Again it doesnt seem to be people that have be playing pre release scene copies either as people have been caught with not every playing a "Backup"

At this time i plan to restore the original ms28 firmware. I am hoping that because i've slipped under the radar so far i may get away with it. Time will tell

[apw100]

Hypothesis 1.

MS still cant see what firmware is installed on a 360. They also cannot tell the difference between a backup, and an original disc. What they can do is install a monitoring application on the 360 hard drive(or that stores the info on the hard drive). Using this, they can run certain checks. For example, if the program logs that the 360 was powered on, but the DVD was not connected via the SATA port, this would raise a red flag(the 360 was being used to power the dvd drive during a firmware flash). This test and a number of others could be run to determine(with a fair degree of certainty) that the Terms Of Use had been violated.  They don't really have to know that you have modded the firmware, they just have to know that you have cracked open the console's case and screwed around with it. That would be enough for them to confidently ban you due to Terms Of Use violations.

How to prove/disprove this?
-Find out how many people with Core systems have been banned. If they have been banned, and have never had a hard drive installed(or memory card) then the hypothesis is probably incorrect.
-Find a 360 w/hard drive that meets the following criteria(it might be hard): has run the Spring Update, has modded the firmware SINCE the Spring Update, but hasn't been connected to Live since firmware was updated.
a)Unhook any connections to the internet.Turn on the 360, with the hard drive in it. Let it load until the dashboard comes up, then turn the console off.
b)Remove the hard drive, turn on the 360, and attempt to log into Live. If you get banned, then the hypothesis is not solid. If you dont get banned, go to the next step.
c)Reinsert the hard drive. Turn the 360 on and connect to live. If the console gets banned, then maybe the hypothesis is correct

[Tribis]

I have many theories one of which is not mine but I agree

Possible detection of backups by MS:

- Read Capacity of disc; this reports wrong disc size for All Hitachi FW, Samsung (Xtreme 3 and higher) will pass this check.
- Read DMI/PFI from disc; All Hitachi FW fails, Samsung reports correct DMI/PFI.

Please keep in mind that for the DMI check on the Samsung to pass, a correctly made backup needs to be made.
Older backups, which don't have the Video partition/DMI sector, will not pass this check, even on the latest Xtreme 5.3 version.

That brings me to the video partition.
Original discs have the video partition not only on layer 0, but also on layer 1.
On Xtreme images, the video partrtion is only present on layer 0, not on layer 1.

Before the game partition is unlocked , this difference can be checked very easily by MS.

I think that the Samsung Fw by C4E is actually very good, every check i can think of has been patched.
Add the rest of the video partition to the image, and i think you have a 100% identical backup."

--TheSpecialist said "Hitachi's are way easier to detect and NEVER will be true stealth anyway, because they can execute code from their internal RAM so MS could upload any detection routine they want. Nothing can be done about that."

Also M$ could essentially attempt to flash your firmware and if your drive denies it they know your firmware is modded. Maybe M$ detects changes in the firmware.

But on a final note ladies and gentlemen, we won last generation we will win again, there are experienced members of our community studying the situation. And we always out number them.

[malbowsier]

I have 78FK premium xbox purchased in JAN 2007.

Created live account and played live with tiger woods 2007 BEFORE flashing firmware.

Used firmware toolbox 3.0.

Played live nearly every night since then with GOW (backup) mostly and a few others. (NFSC and TW2007 to name the most played games)

Did the spring update 2 days after it came out because I was out of the country for 8 days (2 may to 10 th)

console is permanently connected to xbox live for auto update of arcade games.

I have purchased content from xbox market place. (maps for GOW and cars for NFSC)

NOT BANNED AS YET........

[sosotiit]

QUOTE

MANY POSTS  REMOVED, NO DISCUSSION ON USING BACKUP ON LIVE

No further warning,
posts will be removed, sanction served for all discussing Backups on Live or use of illegal copies

 

[evilgrunt]

ms28 xtreme 53 firmware. Banned May 20th midnight. I wonder if its reversable, or maybe a loop hole to get back on live, like hiding your consoles id number? There has to be someway on the motherboard to do so. Nothings impossible. We need a solution.

[skye001]

i dont believe it is a firmware issue?
How can MS dump the firmware do a CRC check.. especially on sammies when C4EVA implemented FirmwareGuard on it.. you cant even dump it without the 0800 disc or 10second recovery method.. so MS checking the firmware is not a issue..

ive got a Hitachi 2.4 Xtrem C4EVA been playin on live..
just Pro Evo 6.. updated before spring update.. first time I went on live with this console was with 2.4.. not banned on the hitachi console.. but will try out my samsung.. flashed to 5.3a before update but been playing on live with 4.2a havent touchd the console since 12/2006

[DeMoN_DARREN]

QUOTE(Tribis @ May 19 2007, 08:32 PM)

But on a final note ladies and gentlemen, we won last generation we will win again, there are experienced members of our community studying the situation. And we always out number them.

We won?  I know we got alot of homebrew (god bless XBMC) and stuff doing on the xbox1, but Microsoft back then stopped back-ups on live and can easily do it now as is seen.  We could have been banned back in January or something, its amazing we got this far.  I for one think its a matter of time untill everyone is banned and thus if i get a new 360, there is no chance i will mod it

I agree with quite a few hypothesis, and i believe for use Hitachi users, a simply check was done and we could do nothing to stop it.  Microsoft build the thing so they must know what to do with it!

[OriginalCompGeek]

My 360 originally had a Hitachi 0059DJ in it, it right now has an MS25 flashed 5.3A MS28 edition (Flashed before spring update).  I was playing a backup of Command and Conquer 3 on Friday night/Saturday morning, nothing happened.

I'll try it again today, but I think I evaded the banhammer.

[chrismkiv]

Well somethings for certain, its nothing to do with supposed 'hardware changes'... because my flashed out of the box hitachi 78fk has just been banned. Used nothing but stealth games, been nowhere near crackdown of Halo3 beta, had the 'new' firmware, and has been banned too.

They MUST be able to either see the firmware, or see the backups.

[DogToffee]

after my own experience & reading the above posts, i reckon they can detect backups somehow - probly using the method described to check the video layer.

the reason why i think this is:

my 360 was only flashed a couple of weeks ago to xtreme5.2 & as soon as i heard about 5.3 i updated to that, which was the night before the update.

the day before the 1st bannings were announced i finally got my kreon drive sorted out & made a backup of my original motogp06 disc & ran it offline for a few hours to make sure i figured everything out correctly.

apart from that backed up copy of motogp (run but not actually played - if thats significant), ive never ran a backup on my 360 either on or off live.

since i 1st heard of the bans (apart from crapping it of course) ive been logging into live every morning before work & leaving the 360 logged in all evening when im not playing (with originals) & im not banned

im logged into live as i type this

i think this goes a fair way towards hinting it being the backups that are being detected & not the firmware

the obvious way to test this would be for me to go online with a backup & get banned - but i aint that stupid seeing as at the moment my theory is holding water as proved (at least to me) by my 360 still being online.

i will update if i do get banned

360's spec's:
samsung ms25 with xtreme5.3



btw

because some of you are saying a lot of new sign-ups are trying to spread dis-info & the like, id like to point out ive lurked here for sometime & only since the ban had things to say & ask that couldnt be sorted by searching the old posts (as a lot of you are prone to tell people to do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)) so i joined up.

something else that might be worth remembering, if i can come onto this site & gather the info needed to mod my 360 to play backups - you can bet your arse that someone from MS has come here & found out how its done too

This post has been edited by DogToffee: May 21 2007, 10:16 PM

[newport_eddy]

i agree totally, here my situation:


i have a hitachi 47 which we know doesn't have the true stealth that the sammy has, it was on live before i flashed it with maximus 2.3, but i have never, and i mean never gone online with a backup or had my ethernet cable plugged in when using a backup, i have only played two games online, moto gp and pgr3 which i have origonals of.

so far so good, i dont use live much but have logged in and out for the last few days to see if i get banned (as i dont really care tbh) an no ban YET.
today i downloaded demo's of forza 2 and virtual tennis 3 and left my box connected from 8 am until 8 pm, reconnected 6 or 7 times with a full power off.

if i get banned i will post it here.

This post has been edited by newport_eddy: May 21 2007, 10:37 PM

[sosotiit]

QUOTE

MANY POSTS  REMOVED

Some posts removed, sanction served for all on the following
-Off topic discussion: this is limited to discussion related to firmware being detected by MS and the source of the ban
-No discussion of Backups on Live
-No discussion about use of illegal copies
-NO THEORIES ON BAN this is the technical section (read the pinned The Spring 2007 Ban Thread, !!!Do not post!!!on this without reading FIRST as there is a place for that  I Been Banned? SPRING 2007, Theories, News).
-all other rules still applies


and again this is not for you satisfy your general chat desire, only discussion on firmware vs ban.
 

[C-5]

If MS was performing a FW check, it would seem to me that the bans would not be so sporadic. I'd hedge my bets that they are checking on the types of backups played (stealth vs non-stealth... homemade vs scene releases... etc.).

Also, this is a question that might have been asked and I missed it. For the folks with banned TS-H943 drives with Xtreme 5+ firmwares... Did you play original Xbox backups on DVD-5 media? I thought that feature flew in the face of "stealth" and never tried it, but I imagine alot of people did.