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[Xbox-Scene]

E66 Explained: DVD model/version Check - E71 Issue Fixed? *Updated* Posted by XanTium | November 2 02:04 EST

Well we got a bit more details, courtesy Commodore4eva, about the Error 66 some users with modified DVD firmwares got after the Fall 2006 Xbox360 Update. It looks like Microsoft has implemented 'DVD DEVICE' and 'DVD VERSION' control in the new kernel, a bit similar to the Windows XP/VISTA device upgrade check! Apparently Microsoft stores the original stock factory drive/version somewhere on the 360, and with the new Fall06 kernel it will give the user an E66 if it detects a drive model or firmware version change. Update1: it's possible that the hardware info has been stored on the 360 at a later time, like during a previous update, rather than stored from the beginning/factory. Update2: Apparently MS has been storing drive info on consoles manufactured starting around end of May/begin of June 2006. Consoles made before that date will probably work with any drive model/version. Updated all news below with this new info. What this means for Toshiba-Samsung TS-H943 drives (in consoles made after ~ end may 2006) is that if the drive was originally loaded with the MS25 firmware (often referred to as an 'MS25 drive') it should work fine with C4E Xtreme v3.3 (based on MS25), but not with C4E Xtreme v4.2 (based on MS28) as that's a version change. On a drive originally loaded with the MS28 firmware (often referred to as an 'MS28 drive') anything below C4E Xtreme v4.0 will not work as v3.3 and below are based on MS25. It's unclear what Microsoft really tried to achieve here. Maybe they tried to lock out users with modified Toshiba-Samsung TS-H943 MS28 drives. When MS wrote the fall update, C4E Xtreme v4.0+ (which is based on firmware MS28) was probably not released yet and C4E Xtreme v3.3 and lower would be no option for these users as those are based on MS25 ... which is a version change and would thus result in E66. Hitachi-LG GDR-3120L drives not affected? Well, modified firmwares for the Hitachi-LG don't reflash the whole firmware. Instead they patch small parts of your onboard DVD firmware which will obviously not change the version. Model and version don't changed, so you get no E66. Exception here could probably be if you use a full flash replacement firmware modchip or if you manually removed the flashchip and flashed it with a different firmware version. I have no real data on this (few people do that), let us know if you fall into this category. Replacement drives? That's something else we should talk about as it's now probably no longer possible to swap from a Hitachi-LG GDR-3120L to Toshiba-Samsung TS-H943 (or the other way around) as the model of your drive would no longer match the model stored on your 360. Also, the FW version on your replacement drive should not be different than your stock/factory drive. I suggest you get a drive with the same version as your stock/factory drive if you ever need a replacement drive. Quick note for the new people here: if you ever plan to replace your drive yourself, keep in mind you also have to patch/flash it with your unique DVD drive key - the key-check is of course still there I wonder if Microsoft did change the DVD model/version info stored on all repaired/refurbished Xbox360s when they swapped a DVD-drive or motherboard ... Let us know if this happened to you I also have an update about the 'new/refurbished/replaced Xbox360 Error 71 issue' I talked about earlier today (which is totally unrelated to E66 or DVD firmware issues). According to Major Nelson Microsoft released the 'fix' to the Fall 2006 update: An updated version of the Fall Update is now available on Xbox Live which has eliminated issues relating to new or refurbished consoles failing after applying the Fall Update. Users who have already applied the Fall Update and are seeing an error message should call their local Xbox Support telephone number. If you already have the update, you will not be prompted for another update. Now ... Microsoft does not want to tell what they fixed exactly. But as E66 is probably on purpose and not a 'problem' for MS, and Major Nelson mentions new/refurbished consoles I'm gonna assume they fixed the E71 issue. Sadly if you already tried to update your brand new system before and got an E71, it looks like you're up for a(nother) swap/repair even before you could play your console for a second. heh. Anyone out there with a brand new Xbox360 wanna test if it's really fixed?

[xboxexpert]

Very interesting article...

[GomerPyle]

Sounds like us Hitachi owners are immune to all this. Good news indeed. Cat and Mouse game has officially just begun.

[langnao]

Interesting ...

Anyone who had done a different drive swapped care to comment?

Anyway, this is going to complicate repair jobs for themselves as they will have to maintain the same OEM drive for the respective console. But who knows, maybe they can modify the original stock factory drive/version settings and thus it will not be an issue to them for using other drive during repairs...

[tnbigdawg]

What's interesting is that there was a way to detect the differences in the FW and hardware so MS could have easily banned people from Live I believe, but they didn't.


I flashed my original FW back before I did the update so I don't have to worry. Won't flash back to a hacked one until further developments/news arises. Just in case.

[DoTsTeR]

QUOTE(tnbigdawg @ Nov 2 2006, 01:41 AM)

What's interesting is that there was a way to detect the differences in the FW and hardware so MS could have easily banned people from Live I believe, but they didn't.

If ya think about they would want to be really damn sure before they banned anyone..  I mean there could be legitmate users that because of repaired, re-conditioned, replaced drives, any other random reason...etc etc... units cold get tagged as modified.. thus they may be playing around with ideas on how to most accurately detect anything..

I mean it could be a real nightmare for them if their detection techniques backfired and banned people that were not doing anything... maybe being 100% sure is part of it.. and maybe why it hasn't happened

I know that even if I was 100% sure something would work I would be nervous about trying it out on millions of consoles and xbox live users..(I dont know the actual numbers)

or not.. nobody really knows

[ITSa341]

QUOTE(DoTsTeR @ Nov 2 2006, 07:46 AM)

If ya think about they would want to be really damn sure before they banned anyone..  I mean there could be legitmate users that because of repaired, re-conditioned, replaced drives, any other random reason...etc etc... units cold get tagged as modified.. thus they may be playing around with ideas on how to most accurately detect anything..

I mean it could be a real nightmare for them if their detection techniques backfired and banned people that were not doing anything... maybe being 100% sure is part of it.. and maybe why it hasn't happened

I know that even if I was 100% sure something would work I would be nervous about trying it out on millions of consoles and xbox live users..(I dont know the actual numbers)

or not.. nobody really knows

Have you honestly ever know of MS to take the time to be careful or make sure things work before releasing them? WGA has a horrible failure or false positive rate and yet they refuse to drop it or fix it. Think about it this is MS.

[DoTsTeR]

QUOTE(ITSa341 @ Nov 2 2006, 02:10 AM)

Have you honestly ever know of MS to take the time to be careful or make sure things work before releasing them? WGA has a horrible failure or false positive rate and yet they refuse to drop it or fix it. Think about it this is MS.

I bet they are a lot more careful than you think. As for WGA it's never given me a problem ever nor have I ever really even noticed doing anything.

[Textbook]

An interesting point:

When WE update the firmware on the DVD drives to a later version firmware, the "definitions" I'll call it, is not updated.  The "definitions" being what the drive is being compared to, the original Model and Version information that is stored.

For example, if I have an MS25 drive, then I flash it to Xtreme 4.2, I have just updated my firmware to MS28.  Now, I am still good to update because it is a later update.  My point is though .. I am able to go back down to MS25 and I am still good.

This means that when WE update the firmware, the definitions do no update as well.  But, when Microssoft updates the firmware, the definitions are also updated.

Based on this interpretation of the update though, no MS25 users should be having any problems at all.  And for some reason, some MS28 drives are getting E66 with 4.2 firmware, but these same MS28 drives then work with 3.3    (an MS25 based firmware)

So, there is still some bugs with the implementation of these checks or something.

[sp1200]

Doesn't the E66 error equate to MS purposely bricking a person's console due to the detection of a modification? If games force an update that render a console useless rather than stopping a specific game or service from being used... isn't this getting a bit close to illegal?

[brb100779]

Well I have swapped Hitachis from 0046 to 0047 version
I have also replaced a MS25 sammy with a 0046 hitachi
and none have issues with the update.

I think how it is happening is by comparing the stored FW revision # to what the bios finds on startup.
much like how a pc on startup will list the drive and model #.
They arent scanning our FW simply comparing bios info to stored info on the console.

This could explain why Hitachi's are unaffected because we only had to make a few sector changes as opposed to changing the entire 256kb bank.
So are drives are still detected as 0047 0046 0059 etc.

This just tells me that MS more than likely cant do jack about the hacks.

 

[Bluenose]

I have a samsung drive in a hitachi box and have tried nearly every firmware available and get E66 every time.  I wonder if a samsung could be flashed to send back the right information for the drive to be accepted?  I'm willing to try as I now seem to have a spare samsung drive now  

[shauno]

Its looking more likely MS can't do much about firmware. If they could've im sure we would have not seen these 'drastic' actions.

 Instead they are trying to limit the amount of hackable xbox360s in future, as soon as unhackable drives emerge with updated 'dvd-rom definitions' on the motherboard and ofcourse the latest dashboard.

So if my 360 dies i couldnt use the dvd drive in a new one, nice longterm plan considering the current failure rate...

Now all they have to do now is release an update that bricks heaps of machines and voila.....wait a second...

Seriously, now they could be compiling a list of people who have an ms25(because they would know when the exact dat they started using ms28f/w) with ms28 f/w without offically having their xbox repaired...doubt that would be hard if they can detect drive model f/w rev from the dash. Hitachi users, you are looking lucky atm, but if ms did the above in theory 3.3 should be fine for ms25 users.

ill certainly be updating with a game disc and staying off live until this unfolds some more;)

This post has been edited by shauno: Nov 2 2006, 08:52 AM

[Jagosix]

Hello Fellow Gamers. Don't think for a moment that M$ doesn't know what's going on with their own creation. They designed the system, so they know more about it than any modder/hacker could.

Think about it. I'll bet M$ has a modded X360 with the exact same stealth firmware & are testing it right now. So if you think the banning won't start, think again. It's just a matter of time.

[brb100779]

QUOTE(Jagosix @ Nov 2 2006, 03:59 AM)

Hello Fellow Gamers. Don't think for a moment that M$ doesn't know what's going on with their own creation. They designed the system, so they know more about it than any modder/hacker could.

Think about it. I'll bet M$ has a modded X360 with the exact same stealth firmware & are testing it right now. So if you think the banning won't start, think again. It's just a matter of time.

I'm sure if they could they would be scanning/banning over it.
Problem is the console wasnt designed to read and write to the DVD-rom's FW
MS may know there console better which is why they know they cant scan our actual FW but they can obtain the revision # of the FW from the bios and compare it to the revision # that was originally on the console.