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[Jan_Klaassen]

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EDIT : update is now done, I am now in right with the license, when is it your turn Lantus?  (even if fbaxbeta4.1 sources are not needed anymore, I say it just for fact)

This has been done to the death you know? You've been given the reason for the absence of those sources, you've been given the assurance that it won't happen again, and that's all there's to it. I've spoken to Lantus and TMaul about it, but unlike you they do try to adhere to the license and don't feel the need to bitch about it, scream about hypocrisy and try to weasel themselves out of adhering to it. Accidents happen, please let it rest.

[haileymegs]

I sat down and read through the pages of this thread since I didnt have much else to do during lunch time while being at work. I think this thread should have been closed at page one.  

This is an issue that will never been solved, and I think CAN'T be solved.  Removing and not emulating the drivers isnt going to solve any companies money problems.  Most of the companies money problems mostly extend to the fact that the consoles are out pacing the arcades.  Which causes arcades to close down, which explains why I have to go ALL The way from Philadelphia to NY to actually SEE and PLAY any SNK game (Well any arcade game for that matter) when it comes out.  There are little resturants and places that have games, but they are neither up to date and most of the time they don't work properly.  Maybe SNK should release their own Xbox emulator for their games? I'd buy that instantly, knowing I could have full access to their games and have them legally.  I don't blame the emulation authors for this, I blame the R&D team for the game companies, and their methods for distributing the games.  They want everyone to play their games?  Put it on a medium that everyone has access to.  These companies have licenses and patents for these games, they should USE THEM.  There are fans like me salivating to play another Metal Slug game or a really good arcade game, but where can I play it , if its no where to be found?

I've enjoyed what all the emulation person /  teams have produced thus far.  There are many games that I finally get a chance to play again because consoles, game arcade machines and portables DO DIE after time.  If time was such a big deal to whether something was emulated or not, then the Xbox emulation / modding community wouldn't have existed until now.  Cause I'm sure as soon as the Xbox was first released people started tinkering with it and making their own additions, same goes for cars, boats, other consoles, hair dryers, etc.   I think what the person said earlier most people are using thier xboxes in a way that MS hadnt planned on, so why are people getting bitter at someone for choosing to extend the capabilities beyond what was initial purpose?  

Would disabling / removing the drivers from FBA-XXX bring a grand renewal to SNK? Probably not.  This is a moral issue. One that won't be fixed by removing or disabling anything.  The more I read this thread, the more its like a corporate embezzler calling a bank robber "bad" or "evil".  They are both doing the same thing, are they not? But thats my two cents.

[Likklebaer]

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Oh, please, this is just pathetic. You are aware Sega suffered a hostile takeover, and SNK has been barely hanging on for years, right? You are aware Capcom has ceased development of arcade games, right? You are aware that most companies specialising in arcade games went bankrupt long ago, right?

Don't try to tell me that even one of these companies has cited emulation as a reason for their hardships. Arcade games are no longer produced as abundantly because home console technology has equalled and surpassed them, they are simply not even nearly as profitable as they used to be. And the Neo-Geo has been looking pretty dated since the PSX came out, I'm amazed SNK stayed around for as long as they did. None of this has anything to do with the usage of roms old or new.

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We don't wish to be the ones that enable you to play your 0-day warez, get it yet?

Then, frankly, you should have spent your time writing a pretty screensaver or something. I guarantee every single user of FBA (probably even yourself) has used it to play at least one rom that they did not pay for and do not own a legitimate copy of. That's warez my friend and, right or wrong, that's what the majority of emulators are used for.

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as for myself, I will probably not be working on this project, too musch hypocrisis

I'm sorry to hear that Gogo. The work you did on FBA-XXX was nothing short of outstanding, but it's understandable you wanting out of all this BS. Good luck with U64-XXX.

[Jan_Klaassen]

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QUOTE QUOTE Personally I couldn't care less about some game company's already over-inflated profits. Oh, please, this is just pathetic. You are aware Sega suffered a hostile takeover, and SNK has been barely hanging on for years, right? You are aware Capcom has ceased development of arcade games, right? You are aware that most companies specialising in arcade games went bankrupt long ago, right? Don't try to tell me that even one of these companies has cited emulation as a reason for their hardships.

Funny, with the original context restored, it looks uncannily like you're changing the subject. I never said emulation caused those problems. SNK, however, has said that.

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I guarantee every single user of FBA (probably even yourself) has used it to play at least one rom that they did not pay for and do not own a legitimate copy of.

So why is it that every single I emphasise I don't want my emulator used for recent games you completely ignore that qualification? If you're going to respond, respond to to what I actually write, or don't respond at all.

[devlkore]

QUOTE (Jan_Klaassen @ Aug 10 2004, 08:39 PM)

Oh, please, this is just pathetic. You are aware Sega suffered a hostile takeover, and SNK has been barely hanging on for years, right? You are aware Capcom has ceased development of arcade games, right? You are aware that most companies specialising in arcade games went bankrupt long ago, right?[/QUOTE] Don't try to tell me that even one of these companies has cited emulation as a reason for their hardships.[/QUOTE] Funny, with the original context restored, it looks uncannily like you're changing the subject. I never said emulation caused those problems. SNK, however, has said that. So why is it that every single I emphasise I don't want my emulator used for recent games you completely ignore that qualification? If you're going to respond, respond to to what I actually write, or don't respond at all.

This isn't an attack on you JK, but do you really think that a significant number of people thought "I won't play/buy proper SNK STufF (ie play arcades, buy home conversions) because I can play it on my PC/Xbox with this hacked emu."?

[Likklebaer]

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So why is it that every single I emphasise I don't want my emulator used for recent games you completely ignore that qualification? If you're going to respond, respond to to what I actually write, or don't respond at all.

Because your definition of 'recent' is just that, your definition and I don't think it's right that you impose it on every one who uses the emulator. To me the concept of one illegal rom being 'more ethical' than another is ridiculous (Metal Slug 3 is okay but don't even think about playing Metal Slug 4!!) so why should I be expected to adhere to your twisted sense of right and wrong?

The bottom line is that you released FBA as an open-source emulator. If the thought of people taking advantage of that situation to play 'forbidden' games on it bothered you then perhaps you should have reconsidered that when you added the Neo-Geo drivers. If FBA were closed-source and people were creating hacked versions to play newer games then you'd be justified in being upset. But when it's a case of people simply adding drivers to a code that you've made publicly available, no offense but I'm afraid it's no longer in your hands. All you can do is state what you think is right, and hope that the emu community is of a high enough moral fibre to agree with you (which I guess it isn't).

[feflicker]

Honestly, once ANYTHING goes open-source, you can't get pist if people take it, modify it to their "liking", and then distribute it. What is the point of making it open-source if people can't innovate within the code?

It is not like fba is a project looking for outside coders to "improve" it,  right? We would all probably agree that FBA is one of the finest emulators available, it is not like you guys need help?

My question is: Would people still be pissed if I added the driver myself, compiled it on my PC, and used it myself, never distributing it to other people? Is that wrong? I don't feel it is, and I certainly don't think it makes a difference if I were to share that work

[GogoAckman]

QUOTE (feflicker @ Aug 10 2004, 10:47 PM)

Holy crap! I just agreed with Likklebaer   Honestly, once ANYTHING goes open-source, you can't get pist if people take it, modify it to their "liking", and then distribute it. What is the point of making it open-source if people can't innovate within the code? It is not like fba is a project looking for outside coders to "improve" it,  right? We would all probably agree that FBA is one of the finest emulators available, it is not like you guys need help? My question is: Would people still be pissed if I added the driver myself, compiled it on my PC, and used it myself, never distributing it to other people? Is that wrong? I don't feel it is, and I certainly don't think it makes a difference if I were to share that work

just continue like that and psikyo games support will be closed sources, that s all you re going to win (even if I agree with most people by a certain way), now -> to the moderator, do what you could have done since so many time, close this damn topic.

[Prican24]

[feflicker]

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just continue like that and psikyo games support will be closed sources

I know, I hope what I said is not taken that way... I guess I just don't understand opening sources if you are going to put all kinds of rules on how the source can be used (rules that make no sense, and will obviously be challenged and difficult to enforce).

And then tracking down people who don't follow your rules and demanding they follow them  

I just wish it was more positive, that's all. Share each others hard work to make the best possible outcome for the people who use the applications (you know, the "warez" people mentioned earlier...)  

[feflicker]

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Lantus has attrapper the big one since a small times end c is damage qu it is necessary has chauqe times qu they break the people.  Gogo and Manto do tubby good tres it finishes the tubby one of Lantus (it takes out an emu and arrete of develloper apres two versions.)  Now some remove the drives for the new dump to be going to kill you your site and the pleasure qu one of the thousands of person has to use fba-xxx.  Be everyone goes remains has the version 02/08 or d here a week there will be a fba-xxx2 cree by a monkey since d apres Lantus meme a monkey could add something has fba-x.  In any case j's made the first move and I would continue has to compile the version with the new dump and I would continue has to screw it everywhere just to do to dump the mister that takes itself the tete parcequ it devellope too much emu xbox

My favorite part is the "Now some remove the drives for the new dump to be going to kill you your site".  

[Prican24]

[rekcah2000a]

[Prican24]

[Jan_Klaassen]

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QUOTE So why is it that every single I emphasise I don't want my emulator used for recent games you completely ignore that qualification? If you're going to respond, respond to to what I actually write, or don't respond at all. Because your definition of 'recent' is just that, your definition and I don't think it's right that you impose it on every one who uses the emulator.

But it's my emulator, and Therefore it's my prerogative to attach conditions to it's usage. You're free to not use it, noone's forcing you to.

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To me the concept of one illegal rom being 'more ethical' than another is ridiculous

It's easy: old arcade games no longer generate revenue, so having those playable doesn't hurt the developers.

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(Metal Slug 3 is okay but don't even think about playing Metal Slug 4!!)

If we had known they'd finally get it ported 4 years after the release and about as long after home ports were cancelled, it would never have been included. Don't worry, we'll be more careful in the future, and your hammering this issue will only make us even more careful. We didn't remove it as the genie is out of the bottle, and has been for about 3 years now, so removing it would be pointless.

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so why should I be expected to adhere to your twisted sense of right and wrong?

If you're using my emulator, because I say so. It's that simple, see above.

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The bottom line is that you released FBA as an open-source emulator. If the thought of people taking advantage of that situation to play 'forbidden' games on it bothered you then perhaps you should have reconsidered that when you added the Neo-Geo drivers. If FBA were closed-source and people were creating hacked versions to play newer games then you'd be justified in being upset. But when it's a case of people simply adding drivers to a code that you've made publicly available, no offense but I'm afraid it's no longer in your hands.

That's bullshit. Releasing FBA binaries with new games enabled is both legally and morally the exact equivalent of hacking closed-source emulators when the authors object to such. FBA's license is quite clear on the subject and the licese text is embedded in the PC binaries, it's included in the source packages, and you're supposed to read it.

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Honestly, once ANYTHING goes open-source, you can't get pist if people take it, modify it to their "liking", and then distribute it. What is the point of making it open-source if people can't innovate within the code?

Where the hell did you get that idea? You can't do anything with the source that goes against the license under which it is released. FBA's license includes a few restrictions, and so do most open-source licences. You can't, for instance, remove license information even under the most free licenses (e.g. BSD-style licenses).