Topic: Firmware Hack Will Become Useless In The Near Future (Read 242 times)

darren_JJ · « **Reply #30 on:** May 17, 2006, 07:49:00 PM »

QUOTE(wdew123 @ May 18 2006, 01:45 AM)

true but the dash can not flash the drive it can flash the kernel/bios these things have nothing to do with the drive

The dash CAN flash the drive

This post has been edited by darren_JJ: May 18 2006, 02:53 AM

TheSpecialist · « **Reply #31 on:** May 17, 2006, 08:20:00 PM »

I really doubt that MS will issue a FW update, some flashes will go wrong and this will result in bad publicity. For this same reason (bad publicity) and legal issues, I REALLY doubt they will try to do damage to any hacked 360 on LIVE. But of course, like said before in this thread, all we can do at this point is speculate.

However, I think they will just issue a kernel update. There are a LOT of ways to detect this hack. People are talking about checksum checks on the FW, but I doubt that MS will even check the FW. I think they will check the DVD-ROM in the drive instead. Currently, the 360 will boot your backup, but this doesn't mean that your backup is exactly the same as the original. In fact, there are a LOT of differences between your backup and the original. So, I'm guessing that MS will just read some stuff from the DVD that won't be on your backup and if the stuff is missing, the 360 just won't boot the disc.

HyperX · « **Reply #32 on:** May 17, 2006, 09:05:00 PM »

QUOTE(brywalker @ May 17 2006, 05:45 PM)

I am really wondering how they will attack. Straight up ban from Live? Reflash? Cripple the system?

Ban is pretty much a given. Reflash? I doubt it. Having to generate a new firmware on-the-fly with your key and risk it flashing wrong is something I don't think they want to deal with. On the other hand, you are a pirate - all bets are off. Just doing a system cripple would be pretty sweet on their part. It would take huge balls, but like I said, if you are a pirate - tough shit.

As far as putting a checksum on the games, it's not like they can say "only these 2 firmwares work" because if they use a different drive maker in the future the game won't work. So they would have to do something like "if this section of the firmware produces x instead of y, kill it" type thing.

I am really excited to see how they handle it. This is like the best part of it all...let the games begin!

Which brings me to the next part. I wonder how they will handle the hard drive swap thing. If my friend has a modded system (unbeknownst to me) and I bring over my drive to swap data or whatever. I bring it home and use it on my system again, will it kill it? Or will it kill his system? They really have to be careful not to take out innocent people in the process.

smartest thing i have heard today (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

One problem MS still wants timmy to fork over his money for live. plus if they mess up his dvd drive he cant even play reatil games. so they lose money on hardware. Well the hackers always win. maybee MS should just shut up and stop wasting money fighting to lose.

krayzie · « **Reply #33 on:** May 17, 2006, 09:56:00 PM »

QUOTE(TheSpecialist @ May 18 2006, 04:20 AM)

However, I think they will just issue a kernel update. There are a LOT of ways to detect this hack. People are talking about checksum checks on the FW, but I doubt that MS will even check the FW. I think they will check the DVD-ROM in the drive instead. Currently, the 360 will boot your backup, but this doesn't mean that your backup is exactly the same as the original. In fact, there are a LOT of differences between your backup and the original. So, I'm guessing that MS will just read some stuff from the DVD that won't be on your backup and if the stuff is missing, the 360 just won't boot the disc.

Yeah my thoughts also, Still the kernel should only be able to see the discs through the drive's firmware right...so maybe the firmware could theoretically be edited to reproduce valid checkups.

DaGamePimp · « **Reply #34 on:** May 18, 2006, 01:04:00 AM »

M$ will counter and probably defeat the initial hack so those that wish to use it with current games simply need to keep the box off LIVE (don't even plug in an ethernet cable) , if you want to use LIVE for updates and what not then flash the drive back to its original firmware and grab the LIVE stuff . Pretty simple really for those that wish to use the hack with current games (who knows what future games will bring) . I see no use in this hack myself because I value my LIVE subscription but if this leads to possible homebrew apps like XBMC on the 360 then by all means explore and exploit it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) .

--DGP--

Eidan · « **Reply #35 on:** May 18, 2006, 01:24:00 AM »

I don't think ms will flash ANYTHING like PSP....cause PSP have a battery! And btw u must have the power plugged into the psp whit a full battery to flash...if the power goes off u still have the battery MAYBE! But whit 360 is a problem....THEY CAN'T FLASH A FUCK...the only way is modify the game disk or the dash...and is not a problem...software can be hacked. And remember...MS and SONY have a lots of companies whit other names that sells DVDS...DVDS-L...CDS...and so on! THE NEED THE HACk! TO SELL MORE CONSOLES AND SUPPORTS!!!! Guys....seriously...did u never see a xbox have totally changed the MOBO or the dash to don't work whit backups? SERIOUSLY!! When i open a xbox i always see the holes to fill whit a chip!! MS needs to sell a lot of console...there's thousand of people waiting for a mod to buy a 360!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I don't think is so difficult...i think they are fucked...i've never used live whit xbox 1...and i've played whit kay all the time! I just hope that the mod will become more user frendly for noob.

Cheers

This post has been edited by Eidan: May 18 2006, 08:26 AM

whackawookie · « **Reply #36 on:** May 18, 2006, 03:00:00 AM »

I'm sorry Eidan but thats the most unintelligent thing i've ever heard. The 360 has been updated up to 3x already regardless of battery. The system was made to be updated so they honestly could care less if you lose power during the procedure especially because they always offer help if a flash goes wrong.

Eidan · « **Reply #37 on:** May 18, 2006, 03:06:00 AM »

QUOTE(whackawookie @ May 18 2006, 10:00 AM)

I'm sorry Eidan but thats the most unintelligent thing i've ever heard. The 360 has been updated up to 3x already regardless of battery. The system was made to be updated so they honestly could care less if you lose power during the procedure especially because they always offer help if a flash goes wrong.

THE SYSTEM...not the firmware...

vegas2times · « **Reply #38 on:** May 18, 2006, 03:21:00 AM »

QUOTE(LithCoder @ May 17 2006, 10:29 PM)

You havent been proven right so why do we need so bad to prove your wrong? MS hasnt done anything yet just shut up til they do(or if they do).

What a dickhead

PleXo · « **Reply #39 on:** May 18, 2006, 05:00:00 AM »

we could have 2 dvd flash chips, and 2 bios chips on main motherboard, pigyback both and have a switch

mobo bio: old dash
dvd fw : hacked firmware

have a switch to switch between them?

TheSpecialist · « **Reply #40 on:** May 18, 2006, 06:47:00 AM »

QUOTE(krayzie @ May 18 2006, 05:56 AM)

so maybe the firmware could theoretically be edited to reproduce valid checkups.

Yes, this is probably what will happen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

psxpirate1 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 18, 2006, 08:04:00 AM »

It would be good to see happen, but then again, I'm no expert on the subject. I wonder to what extent the firmware can be modified without M$ being none the wiser.

By modifying the check, you mean the disc type signature yes? Security sectors are in different places on the dvd's from what I've been reading. So from what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong here) the information on the dvd must read as an original disc so would there have to be some code in-cluded in the firmware (valid security sectors) of each game in order to work correctly? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

This post has been edited by psxpirate1: May 18 2006, 03:07 PM

Mastycles · « **Reply #42 on:** May 18, 2006, 09:08:00 AM »

QUOTE(TheSpecialist @ May 18 2006, 03:20 AM)

I really doubt that MS will issue a FW update, some flashes will go wrong and this will result in bad publicity. For this same reason (bad publicity) and legal issues, I REALLY doubt they will try to do damage to any hacked 360 on LIVE. But of course, like said before in this thread, all we can do at this point is speculate.

However, I think they will just issue a kernel update. There are a LOT of ways to detect this hack. People are talking about checksum checks on the FW, but I doubt that MS will even check the FW. I think they will check the DVD-ROM in the drive instead. Currently, the 360 will boot your backup, but this doesn't mean that your backup is exactly the same as the original. In fact, there are a LOT of differences between your backup and the original. So, I'm guessing that MS will just read some stuff from the DVD that won't be on your backup and if the stuff is missing, the 360 just won't boot the disc.

This is what I predict MS will do. They won't do a firmware flash or probably even bother with checking it unless it becomes absolutely necessary. They will probably do the updates through newer games released too because not everyone uses live or since the core security hasn't been hacked the games themselves will scan the dvd its on and determine if its legit or not. I think however with some very clever dvd firmware hacking you can get around everything.

TheSpecialist · « **Reply #43 on:** May 18, 2006, 09:13:00 AM »

QUOTE(psxpirate1 @ May 18 2006, 04:04 PM)

It would be good to see happen, but then again, I'm no expert on the subject. I wonder to what extent the firmware can be modified without M$ being none the wiser.

By modifying the check, you mean the disc type signature yes? Security sectors are in different places on the dvd's from what I've been reading. So from what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong here) the information on the dvd must read as an original disc so would there have to be some code in-cluded in the firmware (valid security sectors) of each game in order to work correctly? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

What krayzie meant, is that the FW can be modified to defeat kernel checks, that check for differences between original and backup DVD's.

For example, in commodore's hack, the SS is relocated to sector PSN 04FB1F. So MS could let the kernel read that sector and see what's on it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) However, the FW then again could check for this check and return '0' instead of the real sector contents. So, this is one example where the kernel checks for differences between original and backup DVD and the FW is used to re-hack this (cat/mouse game)

However, MS is not really helpless, especially the debug routines could really be used to their advantage ... And it looks like they're just going to do that, since the latest kernel version can tell the difference between DVD-drives, where the previous version couldn't (so this indicates that MS is preparing for the hack and might use the debug routines in their counter attack)

This post has been edited by TheSpecialist: May 18 2006, 04:27 PM

Landlocked · « **Reply #44 on:** May 18, 2006, 11:17:00 AM »

QUOTE(O_oTheGameo_O @ May 17 2006, 07:33 PM)

what many people mistake that this is not a xbox firmware but samsung. And I dont think samsung will allow MS to mess around with there firmware's.

And also people keep saying look at the PSP.

The PSP whas MADE so it could get a new firmware evrytime. And this is the DVDROM of the XBOX not the main firmware!

believe me I know 100% sure that m$ dont know what todo next...

there kinda fcked

Yeah right. MS buys millions of Samsung drives for the 360. I think Sammy is going to let the client dictate what the heck they want to be able to do with them.

Author Topic: Firmware Hack Will Become Useless In The Near Future (Read 242 times)