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[brywalker]

QUOTE(cerealkillajme @ May 17 2006, 10:36 PM)

None of us will ever know how to keep this hack working and under the radar. All that can be done is to wait for M$ to play their card. Once they play their card we figure out what/how it happens then fix it to work again.

You have to remember though, you are asking about the future here. NOBODY has the power to predict what M$ will do in the future. All we can do is speculate, plan ahead, and hope that we plan correctly before getting nailed in an update.

Personally I agree with you that M$ will counter attack, it's pretty much a given. We just won't know how until they do. Also I've seen some people post around saying that "this hack is undetectable", I dunno if that is true or not but if they can access the firmware then they should be able to figure out that you've got different values in the area of the media check.

I am really wondering how they will attack. Straight up ban from Live? Reflash? Cripple the system?

Ban is pretty much a given. Reflash? I doubt it. Having to generate a new firmware on-the-fly with your key and risk it flashing wrong is something I don't think they want to deal with. On the other hand, you are a pirate - all bets are off. Just doing a system cripple would be pretty sweet on their part. It would take huge balls, but like I said, if you are a pirate - tough shit.

As far as putting a checksum on the games, it's not like they can say "only these 2 firmwares work" because if they use a different drive maker in the future the game won't work. So they would have to do something like "if this section of the firmware produces x instead of y, kill it" type thing.

I am really excited to see how they handle it. This is like the best part of it all...let the games begin!

Which brings me to the next part. I wonder how they will handle the hard drive swap thing. If my friend has a modded system (unbeknownst to me) and I bring over my drive to swap data or whatever. I bring it home and use it on my system again, will it kill it? Or will it kill his system? They really have to be careful not to take out innocent people in the process.

This post has been edited by brywalker: May 17 2006, 10:51 PM

[krawhitham]

QUOTE(nuxx @ May 17 2006, 09:32 PM)

Even if MS could detect hacked firmware, which is tough, I really don't think they'd be releasing mass fireware upgrades.

There is too much of a liability when flashing a drive. Let's say MS releases a Live / Game update that flashes your drive... what happens when little Timmy's power goes out during the update and his 360 is a paperweight. MS won't do that.

Also, don't you think releese groups will remove the automatic updates from games they release?

Just like early Xbox chips, just stay off of live if you are worried.

Well if MS checks the firmware, they would only flash they units that have hacked firmware.  And all the units with hacked firmware no longer have a warranty because the user had to open the xbox and viod it.

MS would not have to care about little timmy's xbox because he no longer has a warranty

This post has been edited by krawhitham: May 17 2006, 10:56 PM

[nuxx]

Tell me if I am wrong here...

Wouldn't it be "illegal" for MS to disable a system because the owner of the system changed something on it.

I mean once you buy the console, it is your console, not MS. You can do whatever you want to do with your console, I don't think it's legal for MS to disable it based of something you did to your own hardware.

Now banning your live account and voiding your warranty, sure that's fine.

Only thing MS could do would be to ban Live or change your drive back to original specs, which I think they would still have to tell you about before doing...

[ruciz]

QUOTE(krawhitham @ May 17 2006, 10:56 PM)

Well if MS checks the firmware, they would only flash they units that have hacked firmware.  And all the units with hacked firmware no longer have a warranty because the user had to open the xbox and viod it.

MS would not have to care about little timmy's xbox because he no longer has a warranty

As I said earlier - MS loses money on console sales, meaning they would be taking out more money by doing this if people opt to replace their console, until they get the technology dirt cheap theres little they can do. They cant up the price as they do not remain competative - they hope to DROP the price this fall on the consoles.

Also doing anything to the firmware/HDD is a joke - you know how easy it would be to fubar innocent peoples firmware or HDDs as mentioned a few posts back? And as noted theres little they can do via means of the disc to only work on certain firmwares, as I bet they have dropped hitachi and samsung drives from their suppliers and have moved on to other manufacturers.

Taking into account everything, I have a good assumption of what their line of attack will be, or should be.. I will see if they go through with it.

[whackawookie]

no its not illegal on MS' end. there agreement to the user is to provide a gaming system that corresponds with the software and provide whatever update it may require to be played with. This is all going on right now in the psp scene, if you have a 1.5 psp you are restricted to your game selection. It would be illegal for MS to alter the code on your system without your consent rendering it completely useless on any level. If you change there code for your own use then you void your warranty and they don't have to do anything to better your situation. Don't use anything your unsure about because you could be pissed with the outcome.

[nuxx]

QUOTE(whackawookie @ May 17 2006, 10:11 PM)

no its not illegal on MS' end. there agreement to the user is to provide a gaming system that corresponds with the software and provide whatever update it may require to be played with. This is all going on right now in the psp scene, if you have a 1.5 psp you are restricted to your game selection. It would be illegal for MS to alter the code on your system without your consent rendering it completely useless on any level. If you change there code for your own use then you void your warranty and they don't have to do anything to better your situation. Don't use anything your unsure about because you could be pissed with the outcome.

Oh well it's only $299 bucks right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ruciz]

QUOTE(nuxx @ May 17 2006, 11:00 PM)

Tell me if I am wrong here...

Wouldn't it be "illegal" for MS to disable a system because the owner of the system changed something on it.

I mean once you buy the console, it is your console, not MS. You can do whatever you want to do with your console, I don't think it's legal for MS to disable it based of something you did to your own hardware.

Now banning your live account and voiding your warranty, sure that's fine.

Only thing MS could do would be to ban Live or change your drive back to original specs, which I think they would still have to tell you about before doing...

True, but its MS and I think they can do pretty well whatever they please with the console via software means if its possible over a network - and these days theres not much that isn't. Luckily for us its impossible to lock us out of the drive, but it is possible for them to lock a modded drive out of their system.  I know they arn't braindead enough to pose a massive killer attack.. If so why do people with pirated copies of windows log onto MS update and just get that not genuine message rather than having their autoboot file being overwrittten to format their drive of all windows software? because people are STILL using their software, and at some point they will make money from something of the user.. a keyboard, mouse, flash stick, monitor.. in this case MS will make money off people buying HDDs and controllers, and other accessories for the console rather than taking a cut selling hundreds of consoles that are toasted for a loss.

This post has been edited by ruciz: May 17 2006, 11:18 PM

[brywalker]

QUOTE(nuxx @ May 17 2006, 11:00 PM)

Tell me if I am wrong here...

Wouldn't it be "illegal" for MS to disable a system because the owner of the system changed something on it.

I mean once you buy the console, it is your console, not MS. You can do whatever you want to do with your console, I don't think it's legal for MS to disable it based of something you did to your own hardware.

Now banning your live account and voiding your warranty, sure that's fine.

Only thing MS could do would be to ban Live or change your drive back to original specs, which I think they would still have to tell you about before doing...

Yeah it probably is illegal. I think if this happens to anyone, they should sue. Make sure they get all your information and let them know its bullshit that MS disabled your system because you were stealing from them.  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[wdew123]

there is nothing in the dash or the kernel that can check if the fireware is real or not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grr.gif)


u will soon c that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif)

[brywalker]

QUOTE(wdew123 @ May 18 2006, 12:10 AM)

there is nothing in the dash or the kernel that can check if the fireware is real or not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grr.gif)
u will soon c that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif)

Yeah. Right now. Games can update the dash. Live will update the dash.

[O_oTheGameo_O]

what many people mistake that this is not a xbox firmware but samsung. And I dont think samsung will allow MS to mess around with there firmware's.

And also people keep saying look at the PSP.

The PSP whas MADE so it could get a new firmware evrytime. And this is the DVDROM of the XBOX not the main firmware!

believe me I know 100% sure that m$ dont know what todo next...

there kinda fcked

[psxpirate1]

Denial doesn't make it so. Yes this hack can be detected. People who worked on the firmware understand this. The question left to be answered is how will they retaliate in kind to their own system being modified again. They will protect their intellectual property.


"believe me I know 100% sure that m$ dont know what todo next..."

If you're so sure about MS's next move please enlighten us to the next lottery winning numbers.

This post has been edited by psxpirate1: May 18 2006, 12:39 AM

[wdew123]

QUOTE(brywalker @ May 18 2006, 09:24 AM)

Yeah. Right now. Games can update the dash. Live will update the dash.

true but the dash can not flash the drive it can flash the kernel/bios these things have nothing to do with the drive

[whackawookie]

its funny the things people say to make it seem like they know what there talking about.  It was never stated or claimed that the fw for the rom would be updated by MS, instead a fw for the 360 would check the authenticity of the roms fw and if it fails it could do a few things, it could kill the communication to the rom or disable newer games with higher kernel needs. You don't know what MS is thinking, the psp and 360 are different for many reasons a big one being the psp is reading from ms and booting homebrew while the 360 is still launching from the same media outlet with signed code. A better more solid solution will be needed sooner then you'd like to realise. Burnout and Ghost recon both came with a firmware update on the game and since you can't change a single byte in a xex file theres no way to pass over the check until unsigned code is a possibility.

[psxpirate1]

This is where it could get interesting. It would be probable that you could change a value in an ini file like changing the #1 to a #5 for rapid fire or modify a gun firing rate for example. PGR was hacked for the 1st xbox running on hacked firmware over Live.