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[lllsondowlll]

suprisenly Google couldn't even answer such a simple question. From my understanding we have found a way to halt the hypervisor via kingkong exploit. Which can be used to run focused homebrew code such as Linux for the xbox360. We can also read/write to the kernel. So why is it that we do not have homebrew apps such as running a game from hardrive ect ect? Is it because editing or creating a kernal is much to difficult? If so why can't we just use a XDK kernel for a retail 360? I know these questions may make some of you think I am a complete moron for not knowing why but non the less I would like to find out why we can't run homebrew myself if we can run linux and read/write to the xbox360 kernel.

[openxdkman]

There are several issues that make people go to other machines at the moment, for homebrew :

But before presenting them, we will assume we want to boot Linux. Other ways to start an hombrew game will surely appear, but it's all the same technic : get rid of everything running on 360 usually because it's too much complex to bend for "usual" brains. So, what prevents people from using Linux everyday on 360 :

1) People "who know", are very suspicious about 360 hardware reliability, whatever Gates & Co are saying (remember that if MS stock value dives, Gates will lose a lots of money, since his fortune is basically a big part of MS stock. So, don't expect him to say "Yeah, 360 hardware is crap, but free").
It really costs money and time to extend the lifetime of a modded 360 (since you can't take use the free warranty). Most people are afraid of that.

2) Sound driver not ready yet, but thanks to tmbinc's help, a team is working on it, but not sharing, yet.

3) No way to connect easily a permanent hard drive dedicated to Linux without losing something.
I mean, people, when they invest the money to get a 360 hard drive, use it for the 360, online, etc... which means they don't want to alter it in any way so they don't lose data integrity and they don't appear "cheating" online. Or I have missed tutorials about how to put a normal drive on 360 (not a usb one).

4) The way to boot Linux itself is insanely complex right now : timeattack, get cpu key, prepare kernel 1888, flash it, purchase KK, create KK image, patch it, burn it (once your reached this point, you don't have to redo it again of course), boot it, remove it, insert Linux CD...
(Implies drive firmware hack, infectus soldering, and for god sake xclamp removal and better cooling. Also the ability to create the KK backup, but I'm trying to get rid of that -see below-, since it brings very bad temptations...)

In regard of these issues, PS3 is a terrible competitor because it allows to connect any cheap external drive, on which Linux can boot without any hardware hack. So, people are having fun right now on PS3, coding homebrew (with sound), whereas they are still waiting improvements for 360.

Personally I'm slowly working on issue 4 (my goal : you use KK original, and leave it in 360 drive. A special drive firmware patch it on the fly with easy to change patches. But no ETA and not sure it will succeed.)

Note that tmbinc's gpu demo makes really homebrew on 360 interesting since Sony just killed the RSX hack with last PS3 firmware v2.10. The number of PS3 with fw<2.10 will be low (because lastest fw features are damn tempting and people won't resist and downgrade is nearly impossible, since most people are not willing to open their PS3's and infectus downgrade is not reported successful by all the persons who tried it -whereas infectus downgrade on 360 is 100% ok-), but the number of vulnerable 360's is still high on the planet (even if a 360 manufactured right now is probably out of the question since time attack won't work on it).

About XBMC, there will be XBMC versions running under Linux but a clean port of SDL 2D & 3D and OpenGL must be done first for it and efficient H264 codecs still need to be designed. These are very BIG tasks and will take a LONG time for non professional coders (both on 360 & PS3).

You will probably enjoy fully this gen homebrew (360 & PS3) when next gen will be launched in 5 years maybe. My piece of advice : even if you don't use them, store a vulnerable 360 and a PS3 with fw<2.10, for later.

This post has been edited by openxdkman: Jan 11 2008, 12:40 PM

[IId3fi13rII]

wow

very nice and strong words from openxdk..

man i totally agree with you in all respects and hope that your KK project goes well..
The drive firmware should be able to patch and load the bootloader so you dont have to mess around with it at all..

He is very right also about the many tasks it takes in order to mod a 360 with the timing attacks and then getting the KK stuff together it is a very daunting task unlike just moving some files over and launching a exploitable game save on the xbox one which is almost way too simple.

Very Very soon the 360 will be more able to run more homebrew apps and easier to crack.  These things take time though..
But i mean once you have linux on there, many many things are possible.  Just use Mplayer for example which plays like every codec and has been released for the ppc platform...

 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pop.gif)

[caster420]

You can't simply flash the NAND with an XeDK kernel and have it work.  For one, the XeDK has a 64mb NAND, where as a retail 360 has a 16mb NAND.  Also, the encryption of the NAND is partially based off of per-box information, so there isnt one unique solution.  It would have to be repacked for each and every console, if it was even feasible.  There has been an ongoing project to attempt to boot into an alternate kernel.  If this succeeded, then you could possibly boot into an XeDK kernel.  This would now be extremely useful, as xorloser recently made applications public to make retail code XeDK compatable.  

I dont think it is going to get easier anytime soon, as suggested by IId3fi13rII.  The security of the console is extremely complex.  The current solutions for downgrading are not going to get easier, as all of the currently required installation is the base minimum.  I'm sure you will see an multiple kernel addon from Infectus soon, which will allow people to purchase a relatively easy solution instead of building their own.  

Microsoft learned from the lack of security on the original xbox.  I highly doubt we'll see a solution that was as user friendly as it was with the original.  If you are serious about playing around with homebrew, then you sould get your iron out and start practicing on old boards.

Caster.