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[Havok]

You can not modify ANY signed files.  I believe the update files are .XEX so you can not modify them.

Now most people want to modify the files and have them still run...

You do not care if it runs or not... (in fact you want it NOT to run)

So I honestly don't know if anyone has tried it.  Obviously you need all the game files but I don't know how update files are checked... its likely the game is programmed to update/check for update and if that process fails the game fails to boot.

[Hopeful]

QUOTE(segaboys @ Apr 2 2007, 11:16 AM)

Thanks for all the responses guys,

My workaround on the HDD issue is to use a memory card on between the 2 360s to record my achievements and savegames.

GRAW 2 is the only game in my collection that has the issue so far. (although I am sure there are more)

I was wondering -
I have 2 Ubsoft games - Graw 2 and Rainbow Six Vegas
Both have the sysupdate folder but the one in Rainbow 6 has a empty update file containing zeros
Is it possible to zero the update file in Graw2 so that it does not update?
Would zeroing and keeping the file the same size work when I rebuild iso.
Is editing only limited to texture files as with the king king exploit?

Thanks in advance....

Even if you could skip the update part of the disk, the game probably wouldn't play.

Games are probably now designed to REQUIRE things that won't be on your 360 until you update.

That's pretty clever, because it's not a simple check that can be tricked. It makes the update an integral part of the game code itself, that it won't run without.

This is pure speculation, but reading about the hurdles people are facing, it certainly nods in that direction.

If you want the exploit and GRAW2 at the same time, you may be out of luck. You may just have to choose.

A die hard hb fan like myself would pick homebrew over commercial games any day, but that may not be you. Choose what's more important to you.

[sniffinpoprocks]

the latest Rayman 360 game updates to 4552 as well...

[BLKMGK]

This is going to end up like the PSP stuff. New games will require the new firmware via a crypto key or something. Yeah the new firmware will get whacked eventually and then there will be an upgrade but they were smart to license the eFuse stuff - Sony can be flipped backwards but not so this stuff. Live is the real concern for me, they can throw whatever they want out there to check boxes as fast as breaks are done or custom firmware is made ala Dark Alex's stuff for the PSP. It's going to be PSP style Whack-A-Mole

I waited to buy a 360 until a break was found. A break was found and I'm now the owner of one but as noted cannot play new stuff nor use Live. Sadly the picture isn't looking good unless maybe custom firmware gets made or a signature break comes along. The firmware will get nailed in Live, they can probably rekey for a sig break but that would be the best thing to hope for.

I dunno', waited a long time for this but right now it looks grim if you want something like XBMC on 360 and the ability to play games - especially on Live. Code running under the Hypervisor is real cool, getting code running IN th eHypervisor is the grail still. Any work on an open "Live" like Kali for the old XBOX? That would be pretty nice for starters.

Yeah, new to the 360 stuff but I do understand the hardware security concepts. Done right it's solid, finding a crack in the Hypervisor is awesome but wow making good on it will be a bear I fear unless Linux on the cheap is the end goal. <sigh>

[gallie]

I know this is a newb question but why would you want to disable the update, will it make a 360 crash or do you want to disable it so that it can be hacked further or what. I just want to know that if i get all the updates to date will my 360 funtion normally? I havnt updated it in quite a while cept for my firmware but I want to go back on live so i just wanna know why people dont want this update?

[Icekiller2k6]

QUOTE(gallie @ Apr 9 2007, 09:12 PM)

I know this is a newb question but why would you want to disable the update, will it make a 360 crash or do you want to disable it so that it can be hacked further or what. I just want to know that if i get all the updates to date will my 360 funtion normally? I havnt updated it in quite a while cept for my firmware but I want to go back on live so i just wanna know why people dont want this update?

they don't want to update for the linux hack.

[openxdkman]

You know what? Homebrew on xbox360 has all the virtues...
- prevents you from losing too much time playing online
- protects your wallet (since there are more and more micro payments temptations -traps- online)
- prevents you from buying new retails games or even prevent temptation of grabbing other's backups...

Frankly, like many, I don't plan to really use gentoo livecd a lots (just compiling on it now until I find another solution), but once you see the livecd running, accessing internet, displaying windows on desktop... then
you really get the feeling you may virtually run anything on the beast...

Just that feeling will convince you to not upgrade.

When the 65nm model will be released (it's not the incoming Elite model), and if you have money, it will be time again to be hooked online... But the vulnerable xbox360's, right now, are incredibly precious...

[Hopeful]

QUOTE(openxdkman @ Apr 10 2007, 01:17 PM)

You know what? Homebrew on xbox360 has all the virtues...
- prevents you from losing too much time playing online
- protects your wallet (since there are more and more micro payments temptations -traps- online)
- prevents you from buying new retails games or even prevent temptation of grabbing other's backups...

Frankly, like many, I don't plan to really use gentoo livecd a lots (just compiling on it now until I find another solution), but once you see the livecd running, accessing internet, displaying windows on desktop... then
you really get the feeling you may virtually run anything on the beast...

Just that feeling will convince you to not upgrade.

When the 65nm model will be released (it's not the incoming Elite model), and if you have money, it will be time again to be hooked online... But the vulnerable xbox360's, right now, are incredibly precious...

Agreed wholeheartedly.

That's actually a brilliantly precise way to say it.

The meager, pay-per-goodie, live service... And the today's similar games may have a slightly exciting moment here or there... However they don't AT ALL stack up to the implications of a truly modded 360 on the horizon.

To paraphrase, you really do get the feeling it could run just about anything at full speed. Including non-commercial art and media as far as imagination can stretch, not limited to what companies put out or endorse. Playing any media flawlessly, self designed 3-D backgrounds, screen-grabbers, highly customizable emulator ports. The creative mind reels in excitement.

If that doesn't excite someone way more than games, they're more a simple commercial gamer than a modder. In which case they're probably just a common pirate or backuper mainly interested in playing copies. Not a real enough enthusiast of modding to even know homebrew from fw.

Many who aren't true mod users, showed up for the fw hack during the draught of real mods. A gross flood of such leeches who's only motivation wether to upgrade is "can I still play my copies?"  Hunched over their computer with a dumb wide-eyed stare thinking "Does this threaten playing copies? If not, so what?"  Personally those backwashes are gross to me, and seem to have nothing to do with the scene's purpose at all. I assume that's why most knowledgeable people ignore that type now.

Those of us that appreciate real mods for their true power and possibilities are awaiting the kernel stuff 100 percent. This "retail games are everything" stuff is just left-over from times that mostly attracted "backupers" because all we had was fw. Whenever more homebrew develops, leaving "backups" in the dust, real mod users will flood the place.

   
   
   

[Sonic-NKT]

i just got my 360 with 4532 and im so happy, cant wait for a sound and accelerated x driver :-D
btw, did someone tried to replace the 360 bios to start directly into linux? or maybe somthing like a dual firmware could be possible, that would be awesome. cause since i hope to use my 360 mainly for homebrew it would be still nice to play some official games fromt time to time.

[caster420]

QUOTE(Sonic-NKT @ Apr 10 2007, 06:36 PM)

i just got my 360 with 4532 and im so happy, cant wait for a sound and accelerated x driver :-D
btw, did someone tried to replace the 360 bios to start directly into linux? or maybe somthing like a dual firmware could be possible, that would be awesome. cause since i hope to use my 360 mainly for homebrew it would be still nice to play some official games fromt time to time.

You can't currently 'replace' the bios to boot directly into linux - it still has to load the exploit, then the boot loader, then linux.

You can certainly setup a dual NAND and have two different kernel versions.  There is nothing available via retail but there is homemade dual NAND's popping up (like mine...).  It currenltly works with 4552 but it may not with future kernels, as it remains to be seen what the whole eFuse business is and what the next kernel update will bring.

Caster.

[BLKMGK]

Lol, someone ponders if giving up playing games that the system was designed for in favor of a cheap Linux box and somehow they aren't "real" hackers and are some kind of mouth breathing bottom feeder? I get that right? Spare me. If that were my interest I wouldn't have bought the box when I did, I waited until there was a "real" break other than the crap DVD-R firmware stuff . I'm simply pointing out that running Linux, while a great first step, still leaves us a good ways away from having what was so cool on the XBOX1. Obviously it has to start somewhere but I think I laid out why this isn't going to be quite so easy - Microsoft thought this one through much better. If all you want is a fast Linux box you can do that with any number of other hardware solutions. Maintaining the ability to play commercial games is important and dismissing that and online play is silly. Games online are a blast on the PC and likely as good on the 360. That you think dumping them is somehow good because gee it frees up time or something is amusing, you sound like someone trying to convince themself.

Frankly at this point I've not even played a single game on the box nor gone online - it was bought just to hack it Games is part of what the box does well, if all you want is video and music look at the aTV - it'll probably be "there" faster but it won't be the game box the 360 can be. Don't like Apple? Buy a $50 XBOX1 on eBAY and load XBMC like I've done for every TV in the house. Wow, plays games too. Just duping that won't really advance things much unless you're one of those who has to boot Linux on everything from their iPOD to their Toaster. Unsigned code in the Hypervisor, now THAT is somehting to aim for.

As for boxes with older firmware being precious somehow... that's pretty funny. I know where there's a stack of probably 50 or more of them in one store alone with firmware OLDER than what's required for this hack. They are all over the place in my area and bound to be the same elsewhere too. These things can be gotten pretty easily and I'm half tempted to get a second just to oh I dunno' try out some games! Heck they even have nice flip up tags to show born on date so you know what you're getting beforehand. If you really think they are precious send me cash

Caster, can you elaborate more on the dual firmware hack? Now THAT sounds promising so long as the older firmware doesn't somehow choke when it spots some specific eFuse cooked off. Possibly the best of both worlds so long as the install isn;t crazy complicated.

[caster420]

QUOTE(BLKMGK @ Apr 10 2007, 08:31 PM)

Caster, can you elaborate more on the dual firmware hack? Now THAT sounds promising so long as the older firmware doesn't somehow choke when it spots some specific eFuse cooked off. Possibly the best of both worlds so long as the install isn;t crazy complicated.

It is simply two NAND's booting in parallel with a switch controlling which chip is enabled (CE pin).  

So, what i have done is:

1) desoldered the NAND on the box i want to have a dual boot
2) bought a broken 360, stole the NAND off the mobo, parted the rest (thanks ebay )
3) bought two schmartboards and soldered a NAND to each one
4) wired up the two NAND's together, with the active leads running the the via's around the NAND
5) test booted to see if the original NAND still boots (which is does).
6) Removed R6T3

left to do:

1) solder in the programmer header (LPC2148, 'homegrown hynix reader', read xbh for more info)
2) dump the NAND married to the mobo and flash to the second
3) Update one of the NAND's to 4552
4) Remove update files from hdd
5) finished (hopefully)

That will leave you with two seperate NAND's, and thus, two different kernel versions, one exploitable and one current.  

The reason I say that it remains to be seens with future kernels is that it is thought that 4552 'blew' an eFuse and thus, previous kernel versions do not work.  That being said, 4552 does not check for this 'blown' eFuse and older kernels can still be booted if you have backed it up prior to upgrading to 4552 (since you can't currently downgrade by corrupting the applied patch's... changed filesystem?). So, with the next kernel update, this may not be the case but time will tell.


Caster.

[Hopeful]

QUOTE(BLKMGK @ Apr 11 2007, 01:31 AM)

Lol, someone ponders if giving up playing games that the system was designed for in favor of a cheap Linux box and somehow they aren't "real" hackers and are some kind of mouth breathing bottom feeder? I get that right? Spare me. If that were my interest I wouldn't have bought the box when I did, I waited until there was a "real" break other than the crap DVD-R firmware stuff . I'm simply pointing out that running Linux, while a great first step, still leaves us a good ways away from having what was so cool on the XBOX1. Obviously it has to start somewhere but I think I laid out why this isn't going to be quite so easy - Microsoft thought this one through much better. If all you want is a fast Linux box you can do that with any number of other hardware solutions. Maintaining the ability to play commercial games is important and dismissing that and online play is silly. Games online are a blast on the PC and likely as good on the 360. That you think dumping them is somehow good because gee it frees up time or something is amusing, you sound like someone trying to convince themself.

Frankly at this point I've not even played a single game on the box nor gone online - it was bought just to hack it Games is part of what the box does well, if all you want is video and music look at the aTV - it'll probably be "there" faster but it won't be the game box the 360 can be. Don't like Apple? Buy a $50 XBOX1 on eBAY and load XBMC like I've done for every TV in the house. Wow, plays games too. Just duping that won't really advance things much unless you're one of those who has to boot Linux on everything from their iPOD to their Toaster. Unsigned code in the Hypervisor, now THAT is somehting to aim for.

As for boxes with older firmware being precious somehow... that's pretty funny. I know where there's a stack of probably 50 or more of them in one store alone with firmware OLDER than what's required for this hack. They are all over the place in my area and bound to be the same elsewhere too. These things can be gotten pretty easily and I'm half tempted to get a second just to oh I dunno' try out some games! Heck they even have nice flip up tags to show born on date so you know what you're getting beforehand. If you really think they are precious send me cash

Caster, can you elaborate more on the dual firmware hack? Now THAT sounds promising so long as the older firmware doesn't somehow choke when it spots some specific eFuse cooked off. Possibly the best of both worlds so long as the install isn;t crazy complicated.

  Is this a joke?

Are you starting this argument with ME or openxdkman? Either way, nice attempt at reading

1) No one said people who prefer games to homebrew are wrong. I said they don't need to mod. If your only use for MODS is to play copies and get away with it on live, you have no respect for modding and its real purposes. FW was a conceptual step working towards the real goal of opening things.

Backup kiddies, whos only interest in modding are backups, are running amok giving the scene a bad name. Crowding this scene with their irrelevance, asking stupid questions, confusing the hypervisor exploit with firmware hacks, and asking "what good is anything like homebrew?" Earlier, I said that's scummy and retarded, and I stand by that. It's getting old. The scene is not a hub for that kind of thing.

And NOTE I said homebrew, not linux. Who are you supposed to be paraphrasing there?

Also nobody said they just wanted to watch videos. Nobody said anything to prompt this pointless quibble but since you insist, read closer. "Playing any media flawlessly, self designed 3-D backgrounds, screen-grabbers, highly customizable emulator ports."

By the way linux IS unsigned code running on the HV. It also helps get inside the 360 and learn how to get more homebrew. Why did you think people are so excited about it?

Also think about what is meant by choosing one over the other.  It doesn't matter how important you think it is to have both. You have to choose. It's currently impossible with a kernel hack to "Maintain the ability to play the newest commercial games". Like you said, ms thought it out more this time.  The games now rely on the content inside of included updates to play, so you can't exactly skip them. (And you NEVER could play live with a kernel hack, and never will be able to.)

I don't mean to rub your nose in how incorrect you are, but there's no reason or point for any of that argument. Please end it here.

And you're also getting kernel confused with firmware. Ouch. Overall bad argument on every point. Not a big deal but...

Don't start arguments with people. At least until you first understand what you're saying, and more importantly, what THEY'RE saying.

[openxdkman]

Oh, you mean many potentially vulnerable xbox360's can be found in stores?

Good to know. But remember it's not only the kernel version that is important.
You also need a drive that can be flashed to run the King Kong patched backup.

I've heard rumours about a new drive in recent shipments for which no firmware exists yet...

So I rather like having people reading these posts think that they don't have really a lots of  time to decide to grab a vulnerable xbox (and will always be a gamble since you can't really know what kernel and drive you will get. For a 100% sure purchase, ebay will be the way, but will cost more money).

Also MS can really run into a panic frenzy at anytime... They can ask all resellers to open crates and upgrade kernels... or just recall all unsold crates to refit them in new packages after upgrade (if they consider new coming models will make them difficult to sell in future).

On the other hand, and it's funny, there are rumours that MS litteraly 'cheated' in order to meet their 10M consoles 'sold', by just 'shipping' them to resellers large warhouses... If it's true, and if drives in these mountains of crates are flashable, it will be quite a nightmare for MS and quite a lucky time for homebrew seekers...

Another interesting point:
PS3 warns you when temperature gets too hot.
It's an important feature missing in xbox360 dashboard.
Homebrew on xbox360 will be an excellent opportunity to add this feature.


This post has been edited by openxdkman: Apr 11 2007, 12:21 PM

[segaboys]

QUOTE

It is simply two NAND's booting in parallel with a switch controlling which chip is enabled (CE pin).

So, what i have done is:

1) desoldered the NAND on the box i want to have a dual boot
2) bought a broken 360, stole the NAND off the mobo, parted the rest (thanks ebay  )
3) bought two schmartboards and soldered a NAND to each one
4) wired up the two NAND's together, with the active leads running the the via's around the NAND
5) test booted to see if the original NAND still boots (which is does).
6) Removed R6T3

left to do:

1) solder in the programmer header (LPC2148, 'homegrown hynix reader', read xbh for more info)
2) dump the NAND married to the mobo and flash to the second
3) Update one of the NAND's to 4552
4) Remove update files from hdd
5) finished (hopefully)

That will leave you with two seperate NAND's, and thus, two different kernel versions, one exploitable and one current.

The reason I say that it remains to be seens with future kernels is that it is thought that 4552 'blew' an eFuse and thus, previous kernel versions do not work. That being said, 4552 does not check for this 'blown' eFuse and older kernels can still be booted if you have backed it up prior to upgrading to 4552 (since you can't currently downgrade by corrupting the applied patch's... changed filesystem?). So, with the next kernel update, this may not be the case but time will tell.


Caster.

Caster,

I recently sold a launch motherboard on Ebay I lost the key for, boy do I feel stupid now..... I needed the money but now it seems more valuable.  Is the NAND an off the shelf item or is the only source a 360 motherboard?

One question with the dual NAND solution, if you have it installed and it is switchable from one NAND to the other, what happens when you go from updated NAND to and unpatched one and the HDD is still connected. Does the xbox prompt that it needs to be updated when you restart and the HDD is still attached?

I suppose its not really an issue as you would probably run hombrew off a separate 120 Gb HDD  
The only issue is risk when you switch from one version to the other - exactly the same when someone puts GRAW2 in my wrong 360 and I run across the room to eject and put it into my updated one. ( I have different faceplates but it still does not stop the idiots)

Interesting work you doing none the less, maybe oneday I can sell my second 360 and buy a PS3  

Cheers

Brian Lara Cricket updates as well