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Author Topic: Softmod Idea  (Read 80 times)

xbox7887

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Softmod Idea
« on: October 28, 2006, 10:09:00 AM »

You can't even spell theoretically :X

The only format the 360 can read is a signed XEX, aside from whatever system XNA uses...but I would be willing to bet the system is pretty airtight.
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v8godfather

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Softmod Idea
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2006, 10:37:00 AM »

Yeah im deffenitly not a good speller but like i said i was just thinking i know nothing about this just putting an idea out there
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jameswalter

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Softmod Idea
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2006, 08:38:00 PM »

http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=471320
DO NOT POST THEORETICAL IDEAS.....

The 360 is not a PC....it runs multiple levels of security to intercept any attempt at running unauthorized programs.  Please read a little and you will realize that MS has learned a little since the xbox....and even on the xbox something as simple as this wouldn't have worked.
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peetyboy2006

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Softmod Idea
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2006, 05:46:00 PM »

QUOTE
Is there anyway to use the backwards compatibility file provided by microsoft?

http://www.xbox.com/...ty.htm#download

It lets you play XBOX games, like the original Splinter Cell, that allowed for all the fun with the first xbox.. And I was able to burn that file to a disk to update my xbox360, so can that file not be looked at to see how it was able to run on the box? Just posting a possible way in. I know you don't want just ideas here but if I am able to update my xbox with a burnt file, what stops someone else, who knows what the heck they are doing, to do the same and boot linux or something on the xbox 360. Just a thought...


I love the way this TECHNICAL HACKING forum has turned into a noobs gathering place...

If you did ANY sort of searching, reading etc... you would realise that your idea has been discussed numerous times already and has been dismissed numerous times already, because it WILL NOT WORK!!!

All xex's are signed by a 2048 bit encryption key, so anything not signed by this key will not run! You cannont modify the file without breaking the key!

You also cannot sign another file with this key, because no-one (except about 2 or 3 ms employees) know this key. It would also take thousands and thousands of years to brute force this key.

The only reason you can burn this file to disc is that the media flags allow it to be burnt to disc, for manual updating for people without internet access.

You cannot edit this file, you cannot run an unsigned xex. Please do a bit of looking around in future as posting stuff that has been posted a million times is very counter productive.
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Leyvin

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Softmod Idea
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2006, 10:12:00 AM »

QUOTE(peetyboy2006 @ Nov 27 2006, 12:53 AM) View Post

I love the way this TECHNICAL HACKING forum has turned into a noobs gathering place...

If you did ANY sort of searching, reading etc... you would realise that your idea has been discussed numerous times already and has been dismissed numerous times already, because it WILL NOT WORK!!!

All xex's are signed by a 2048 bit encryption key, so anything not signed by this key will not run! You cannont modify the file without breaking the key!

You also cannot sign another file with this key, because no-one (except about 2 or 3 ms employees) know this key. It would also take thousands and thousands of years to brute force this key.

The only reason you can burn this file to disc is that the media flags allow it to be burnt to disc, for manual updating for people without internet access.

You cannot edit this file, you cannot run an unsigned xex. Please do a bit of looking around in future as posting stuff that has been posted a million times is very counter productive.


I wouldn't say it's impossible, or that it would take thousands of years... using a brute force method it would be possible to crack the key within a year or so. Problem that many 'soft-modders' face is the fact that every single signed key not only is specfic to each title, but each executable/library and disc as well.

You have a main key for the project that uses 2 peices of information that are common to the project, and then it also uses other bits of information. The main reason that they're safe from being cracked is because they use several layers of encryption.

Not that it matters, there are several options available to 'soft-mod' or 'hard-mod' the xbox360 to allow it to play unsigned games. Have no idea how well they work though, I know that as Microsoft learns of each one they test it out; and in each new system update they disable such devices/hacks. They also add a check to make sure systems accessing Live! aren't using them, if you are and are on the list then you can expect to be banned from their Live! service.

Honestly you can't blame them, I mean do find it quite cheeky people believing they should be allowed to play pirated software. Although I agree with being allowed to back-up your games, think that there are far fewer people looking to do this for a legal reason.

Beside the EULA provided with games (by Microsoft and Sony) no longer allow you the right to create software back-ups.
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peetyboy2006

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Softmod Idea
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2006, 06:51:00 PM »

QUOTE
I wouldn't say it's impossible, or that it would take thousands of years... using a brute force method it would be possible to crack the key within a year or so.


Ok, ill say this now, this key WILL NOT BE CRACKED! the original xbox key was only discovered because of bunnies sniffing antics (eww lol), it was never actually "cracked" with brute force.

Ms have pretty much covered there backs with this one by making sure the key never leaves the cpu, so it doesnt travel any busses (as far as people have found anyway).

If you know anything about cryptography or signatures or anything like that, you would know that it isnt going to happen!

QUOTE
Problem that many 'soft-modders' face is the fact that every single signed key not only is specfic to each title, but each executable/library and disc as well.


How can you say this? i do believe that there are more than one key, but all xex's would have to be signed with the same key, otherwise the xbox would have to contain hundreds or thousands of keys to decrypt all the different game xex's out there. I think youll find that people have established there are 3 keys used in the 360:

1)dvd key
2)Public Signing Key For all xex's, content etc...
3)Per box key (randomly generated each startup) for encrypting kernel, dash etc...

QUOTE
Not that it matters, there are several options available to 'soft-mod' or 'hard-mod' the xbox360 to allow it to play unsigned games


Name them.

I can think of none. Only the dvd hack which is for backups, not unsigned code.

QUOTE
I know that as Microsoft learns of each one they test it out; and in each new system update they disable such devices/hacks. They also add a check to make sure systems accessing Live! aren't using them, if you are and are on the list then you can expect to be banned from their Live! service.


Can you back any of that up? theres no proof ms has a list of bad people with jacked firmwares yet. They also could be doing just that, nobody knows (except gatesy of course lol). And as i remember the only update which caused problems with dvd firmware, was the fall update, and thats because they took away the ability to "downgrade" firmware, so any drives with a lower firmware than there orignal (or different drive) would give an error. But that has easily been corrected now thanks to the good people making these firmwares.

MS may well be gathering info on people playing backups on 360 on live, but thats the risk you take if you mod your firmware and pirate games. and i dont see what there going to do to actually stop the firmware modding. Its caught them on the back foot IMO. They can ban, and try and prevent further modding, but as seen with the 0078 hitachi's, even they are still flashable.

QUOTE
Honestly you can't blame them, I mean do find it quite cheeky people believing they should be allowed to play pirated software. Although I agree with being allowed to back-up your games, think that there are far fewer people looking to do this for a legal reason.

Beside the EULA provided with games (by Microsoft and Sony) no longer allow you the right to create software back-ups.


I honestly do not think that ANYONE should have to make a backup of a game if they treat it as they should. Accidents aside (which i know can happen) you should not need a backup. i still have all my original games for sega saturn and playstation all still perfectly playable, because i have looked after them well. As long as you box them up after use, and keep the box on a shelf away from children, your fine and dandy.

And no backing up is legal as you have said, the EULA's prevent unauthorised copying or duplicating of any discs, software etc... oh and you forgot nintendo there wink.gif should show them some love since there gonna be No1 again biggrin.gif
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peetyboy2006

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Softmod Idea
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2006, 05:25:00 AM »

QUOTE
I think it has to be done through hardware,

Has anyone desoldered all chips and read them and put their files on a page/server or something?


After trying out a few ideas for a softmod, i completely agree i think it will be a hardware based mod that breaks the 360.

I know over at xboxhacker.net people have been desoldering chips and examing contents and swapping between boxes to determine whether theres per box stuff in each chip, or general stuff.

A guy called teammodfreakz has desoldered his cpu lmao, some great pics over there. He's planning to put the cpu in another box, probably to determine if the keys are all stored in the cpu, and if the per box encrypted stuff is encrypted from the factory randomly, or if its encrypted by the cpu on startup (this is what i think after reading some stuff).

Check out free60.org, theres loads of info over there if your interested in trying anything yourself, if youve got a couple of spare boxes to trash lmao.

I dont think many of the files are available publicly due to the software being licenced and therefore illegal to distribute, so youd have to ask someone to pm you with a link or summat, cuz i have no idea where to get them.
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