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[Wolves]

From what I believe in emulating operating systems (Macintosh) is that the emulator itself emulates a hard drive with a disk image. And one thing I know about emulators is that emulating hardware is done with the processor.

Is it possible that MS has a hidden file or directory with this hard disk image on it? Somebody should remove all the visible files and in each folder look to see if space is still taken up when there are no apparent files in view. Or empty your hard drive (not format) of all viewable files and see if there is any space taken up.

Also, by actually managing to hack the emulator, you are essentially only hacking the original Xbox. So, that almost removes us from the power of the 360 and leaves us with a 360 emulating a hacked xbox. Also if there is this 'disk image' then we dont even get to see the 360's extra 20gb of space or allow ourselves unmoderated access to the 360's hard drive, all items added to the 'hard drive' of the emulated Xbox would simply be added to the disk image.

And, I would imagine that this image would be protected. so even if we do find it then we're almost at no progress.

Somebody research this and let's see how this works.
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I am aware that I have almost the same post in the "It lies in the emulation thread",
I was looking for some replies.

[Wolves]

Also, come to think of it, if this image file is signed, then would that not practically thwart our plans on finding a hole through the emulator?

Like, if this even exists and is signed, then doesn't that mean no external editing of the contents of this image
(Xbox hard disk) without the key MS uses?

But also, what if they couldn't sign it for whatever reason (maybe the emulator wouldn't boot?) and they left it hidden, hoping that nobody would wise up.

I am positive there are security measures taken to prevent access of this file (if it even exists) because that would be a huge flaw, even though we would simply be emulating a hacked Xbox.

I'm sure somebody's going to mention that we could use homebrew software to allow access to the 360's hard disk and even if we do, what does that do? That would simply let us see and change files in the 360 but not run them (we would be emulating a hacked Xbox, not a 360).

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Now, from emulating a Macintosh I know that I require a ROM to do so, I think that there might be a chance that one exists for the emulator that runs on the 360. However, to emulate Windows on a Macintosh, I don't beilieve that you require a ROM.

I have no real idea how a powerpc works (the original Xbox and possibly the 360, not too sure though, was one) but to the best of my knowledge, they require a ROM to boot, and that is exactly what you need to capture from a Macintosh to emulate it.

So, if it is the fact that the Xbox and the Macintosh are a powerpc that they would need a ROM to boot, would we not be able to rewrite the file and then force the emulator to boot from the altered ROM?

Also, this ROM, I'm sure would have plenty of security measures to prevent us from being able to alter or even see it.

Considering that all this does exist and is unsigned, what if we told the ROM to give us more processor power, hard disk space and make it run unsigned code.

Again, I'm sure somebody's going to ask why dont we throw a Macintosh ROM in there and tell it to boot off of a Macintosh hard disk image? We, would then have an alternate operating system running entirely off of a disk image. But, I think that the fact that the emulator is designed to run the Xbox and not Macintosh it probably wouldn't work, so without proof, don't ask

And, this is where MS's key takes place, what if they signed the ROM? Would the ROM even work with it being signed? If they managed to sign it and the image then that basically puts getting in through the emulator out of the question.

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I am very sorry about the swaying opinions, but I wrote this and thought about it at the same time.
But, let's hope the ROM and/ or the disk image even exist and are unsigned.
I know my fair share about computers, but I don't really know all the inside info, so that would be why I'm not getting too technical.

Strange though, if they exist, it could be a way in or the thing that almost guarantees us no access.

Also, here are a few links to some Macintosh emulation sites, in case they have any use:

http://basilisk.cebix.net/ - 68k mac emulator *Requires ROM
http://sheepshaver.cebix.net/ - PowerMac emulator (requires Linux or BeOs) *Requires ROM
http://pearpc.net/ - Mac OSX emulator

[halofun121]

QUOTE

I'm sure somebody's going to mention that we could use homebrew software to allow access to the 360's hard disk and even if we do, what does that do? That would simply let us see and change files in the 360 but not run them (we would be emulating a hacked Xbox, not a 360).

There's already a program to do this, called Xplorer 360. You cannot modify a XEX file without breaking the signature. You may not be able to run homebrew, but it's a start.

QUOTE

Now, from emulating a Macintosh I know that I require a ROM to do so, I think that there might be a chance that one exists for the emulator that runs on the 360. However, to emulate Windows on a Macintosh, I don't beilieve that you require a ROM.

I have no real idea how a powerpc works (the original Xbox and possibly the 360, not too sure though, was one) but to the best of my knowledge, they require a ROM to boot, and that is exactly what you need to capture from a Macintosh to emulate it.

So, if it is the fact that the Xbox and the Macintosh are a powerpc that they would need a ROM to boot, would we not be able to rewrite the file and then force the emulator to boot from the altered ROM?


Also, this ROM, I'm sure would have plenty of security measures to prevent us from being able to alter or even see it.

Considering that all this does exist and is unsigned, what if we told the ROM to give us more processor power, hard disk space and make it run unsigned code.

Again, I'm sure somebody's going to ask why dont we throw a Macintosh ROM in there and tell it to boot off of a Macintosh hard disk image? We, would then have an alternate operating system running entirely off of a disk image. But, I think that the fact that the emulator is designed to run the Xbox and not Macintosh it probably wouldn't work, so without proof, don't ask

It sounds like your just thorwing information together. The Xbox 360 contains an IBM PowerPC. This processor was used in Macintosh computers.

Xbox Backwards Compatibility functions on the Xbox 360 via a software emulator for each seperate Xbox game. It isn't one big emulator. Somebody would need to add support for the Apple operating system, but that wouldn't make any sense because the Xbox emulator for the Xbox 360 emulates Xbox hardware, not Apple hardware. Your best bet is to wait for Linux to get running on the Xbox 360, and run the Apple operating system through an emulator such as MoL(Mac on Linux).

I don't know if you'll ever see Mac OS X running natively on the Xbox 360, Apple is pissed off as is with all the people running their operating system on unsupported x86 machines.

QUOTE

From what I believe in emulating operating systems (Macintosh) is that the emulator itself emulates a hard drive with a disk image. And one thing I know about emulators is that emulating hardware is done with the processor.

It depends on the operating system and what you are trying to emulate. The PowerPC in the 360 is not the same that Apple nessecarily used, this chip would need to be emulated. Hardware and Software must be emulated for things to function properly. If I'm not mistaken, the GPU on the Xbox 360 emulates the GPU on the Xbox 1, so not all the work is done by the CPU.

QUOTE

Is it possible that MS has a hidden file or directory with this hard disk image on it? Somebody should remove all the visible files and in each folder look to see if space is still taken up when there are no apparent files in view. Or empty your hard drive (not format) of all viewable files and see if there is any space taken up.

Why on Earth would they put a hard disk image containing the Apple operating system on the Xbox 360?

QUOTE

Also, by actually managing to hack the emulator, you are essentially only hacking the original Xbox. So, that almost removes us from the power of the 360 and leaves us with a 360 emulating a hacked xbox. Also if there is this 'disk image' then we dont even get to see the 360's extra 20gb of space or allow ourselves unmoderated access to the 360's hard drive, all items added to the 'hard drive' of the emulated Xbox would simply be added to the disk image.

Not nessecarily. Some emulators, if set up properly, allow acsess to the host system (in this case the Xbox 360).

This post has been edited by halofun121: Apr 17 2006, 12:58 AM

[Wolves]

I was merely using Apple emulation as an example and by hard disk image I mean the original Xbox's hard disk image.

And I do know that some emulators allow access to the host operating system (BasiliskII).

And what I mean is, with the original Xbox being emulated and *if* it is cracked, then if you do gain access to the host hard drive, then all you can really do is read and write. Basically, you have the same ability as Xplorer that I already know about. With the original Xbox, you cannot execute 360 files, and the emulator emulates the Xbox (which has no support for 360 software/ games).

And now that I think of it, please read carefully before you post.

This post has been edited by Wolves: Apr 17 2006, 01:11 AM

[halofun121]

QUOTE(Wolves @ Apr 16 2006, 08:01 PM)

I was merely using Apple emulation as an example and by hard disk image I mean the original Xbox's hard disk image.

And I do know that some emulators allow access to the host operating system (BasiliskII).

And what I mean is, with the original Xbox being emulated and *if* it is cracked, then if you do gain access to the host hard drive, then all you can really do is read and write. Basically, you have the same ability as Xplorer that I already know about. With the original Xbox, you cannot execute 360 files, and the emulator emulates the Xbox (which has no support for 360 software/ games).

You've just answered your own question. You're in the same boat the rest of the scene is.

QUOTE

And now that I think of it, please read carefully before you post.

No offense, but try writing with a little more clearly so we can all understand what the hell you're saying.

This post has been edited by halofun121: Apr 17 2006, 01:24 AM

[Wolves]

No offense, but that was clear as day to me, and I'm sure to many others.

As stated, please read carefully, I explain everything I write. I think you are misinterpreting it.

This post has been edited by Wolves: Apr 17 2006, 03:20 AM

[halofun121]

QUOTE(Wolves @ Apr 16 2006, 10:19 PM)

No offense, but that was clear as day to me, and I'm sure to many others.

As stated, please read carefully, I explain everything I write. I think you are misinterpreting it.

Sorry buddy, I know what you are talking about, but it wasn't very clear to me. You jumped from one thing to the other to quick.

[brandogg]

Took some clarification over here as well. Anyway, I don't think this is how the XBox emulator works, otherwise there would just be one emulator that would update whenever you connected to Xbox Live, and it would run each compatible XBox game on it's own, without needing an update for each XBox game you put in your system. This is hardware emulation we're dealing with - not software (OK, in a sense it's kind of both). What I'm saying is, the XBox 360 is not trying to emulate the XBox dashboard, it's only emulating the hardware needed to run the games.

[Wolves]

I see what you mean. I'd still like to see if there is any form of a hard disk image, though.

[slappydooda]

It seemed pretty obvious to me that he was just useing macs as an example...

[onlyme]

QUOTE(Wolves @ Apr 17 2006, 05:07 AM)

I see what you mean. I'd still like to see if there is any form of a hard disk image, though.

I you browse the hdd with xplore360 on one of the partitions there is a folder which has what looks to be the xbox 1 dashboard files fonts aswell but i dont believe these are used apart from when updating games and downloading content


I could be wrong

[deadparrot]

QUOTE(Wolves @ Apr 17 2006, 05:07 AM)

I see what you mean. I'd still like to see if there is any form of a hard disk image, though.

No, there isn't.  The emulator simply does the little-endian to big-endian conversion and vice-versa when data is read/written.  FATX and XTAF are essentially the same, except that XTAF is big-endian (hence the backwards spelling).  This means that data is written directly to the drive.  Why have virtual drives, when you don't need one?

[Wolves]

Because we could hack them much easier, obviously.