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[Havok]

What if MS is doing offline checks??

[Havok]

Again.... what if MS is doing OFFLINE checks???

I can't believe I have to spell out this scenerio...

1.  Non stealth backup is inserted into the system.

2.  Drive asks for PFI information.

3.  Non stealth backup provides incorrect information.

4.  MS logs on your system that you are not playing an original backup.

5.  Connect to Xbox Live (no disc in drive.. chip disabled.. whatever..)

6.  Xbox 360 uploads gamerscore information as well as PFI data.

7.  MS bans you from Xbox Live.

[Broncos34]

What Havoc is trying to say is that Microsoft may be logging your activities, and keeping those logs on the console locally.  Once you connected to XBL, it uploads those logs, looks for certain things, such as playing backups, then they ban you based on that.

[Havok]

I just explained it to you!!??

There is a lot of security on the original discs...

The chip (firmware) gets arounds these checks allowing the game to boot.

The backups are VERY different in structure from the original.

Without the newest firmware and properly made backups these differences are EASILY detectable.

So you put a BACKUP in your drive.. the chip is ON...   The box itself.. (not connected to live) checks the parameters of the disc.  

They WONT match the original.  The box itself can tell you are using a backup.

A log is stored on your hard drive or memory card which is uploaded the next time you connect to live.

MS can then use that information to ban you.  The information was collected when you were offline, the chip was on and you were using a backup.

Again what do you not understand?? Can anyone else help me out.. maybe I am missing something.. I can't figure out how to be any clearer.

[Broncos34]

Nope, it's not an invasion of privacy at all.  Everyone that signs onto XBL agreed to their End User License Agreement.  They aren't stopping your 360 from booting backups, they're stopping modified 360s from connecting to their network.  For example, would you let someone else's virus infected computer connect to your network?

[Jazsun007]

QUOTE(Broncos34 @ Jul 10 2007, 02:13 PM)

Nope, it's not an invasion of privacy at all.  Everyone that signs onto XBL agreed to their End User License Agreement.  They aren't stopping your 360 from booting backups, they're stopping modified 360s from connecting to their network.  For example, would you let someone else's virus infected computer connect to your network?

Hey smart one, you just said that they are checking when we are offline. (which there is absolutley no proof, of and is probably just speculation), so if they are checking when we are offline then we obviously we don't have to obey the Xbox Live EULA. Hints we are NOT on xbox live. That's like saying, since I bought this PC from Microsoft they can put software on it which checks for illegal programs w/ out me knowing. Sounds an awful lot like invasion of privacy. And it's not like I'm doing anything wrong since this is a backup of a Game I OWN, thus I am on the laws side.

I'm fairly sure that MS is not doing offline checks, again there is no proof just word of mouth to scare people.

[Havok]

QUOTE(Jazsun007 @ Jul 10 2007, 03:11 PM)

Hey smart one, you just said that they are checking when we are offline. (which there is absolutley no proof, of and is probably just speculation), so if they are checking when we are offline then we obviously we don't have to obey the Xbox Live EULA. Hints we are NOT on xbox live. That's like saying, since I bought this PC from Microsoft they can put software on it which checks for illegal programs w/ out me knowing. Sounds an awful lot like invasion of privacy. And it's not like I'm doing anything wrong since this is a backup of a Game I OWN, thus I am on the laws side.

I'm fairly sure that MS is not doing offline checks, again there is no proof just word of mouth to scare people.

Actually it is a FACT that they are doing offline checks... we just don't know if they are using that information for anything. (or ever will).  It is not a violation of privacy or against the law.  Technically just by modifying the box and going on Live YOU are already in violation of the agreement.

And the Xbox Live EULA states...

"MS may retrieve information from the Xbox used to log on to Xbox Live as necessary to operate and protect the security of Xbox Live, and to enforce this Agreement."

"Xbox Live may only be accessed with an unmodified, except for Microsoft authorized repairs and upgrades, Xbox video game console. Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, further sublicense, distribute or use for other purposes either the hardware or software of this system is strictly prohibited."

[hessec]

[Reaper527]

QUOTE(Jazsun007 @ Jul 10 2007, 03:11 PM)

Hey smart one, you just said that they are checking when we are offline. (which there is absolutley no proof, of and is probably just speculation), so if they are checking when we are offline then we obviously we don't have to obey the Xbox Live EULA. Hints we are NOT on xbox live. That's like saying, since I bought this PC from Microsoft they can put software on it which checks for illegal programs w/ out me knowing. Sounds an awful lot like invasion of privacy. And it's not like I'm doing anything wrong since this is a backup of a Game I OWN, thus I am on the laws side.

I'm fairly sure that MS is not doing offline checks, again there is no proof just word of mouth to scare people.

c4e's debbugging has proven that the system requests the PFI while your system is offline, with the cable disconnected from the system. would you prefer to argue with the person who made your firmware? ms IS checking some things offline, what they do with it now and what they do with it in the future might be differant things, but trust me, at some point logging will end up being a full blown system that will catch you.

havok's absolutely right about the TOS/EULA

[IId3fi13rII]

i agree with Havok that M$ is and probably is logging SOME activity including the Pfi sectors while your system is on or offline.  But i do not believe that they are recording e64 errors when the SATA cable is not plugged into the DVD Drive. i do not believe this because ever since the banning i have kept my 5.2 xtreme firmware and have continued with my xeno top gear, to rip many games (meaning i plugged in the video cable) which means i have probably generated at least 20 e64 errors since the bannings started that Doomful Tuesday.  Also i have connected back to Xbox Live after almost every time i would rip a game (as i did most of them seperately) to back it up.  And to this day i can still connect to Xbox Live without any problem.

these are just my experiences and this e64 error logging thing could be very real and maybe i just got lucky>>

You never know>
But just be very careful and use the iXtreme Firmware a God named C4Eva has provided for us...

[Reaper527]

QUOTE(IId3fi13rII @ Jul 13 2007, 04:43 PM)

i agree with Havok that M$ is and probably is logging SOME activity including the Pfi sectors while your system is on or offline.  But i do not believe that they are recording e64 errors when the SATA cable is not plugged into the DVD Drive. i do not believe this because ever since the banning i have kept my 5.2 xtreme firmware and have continued with my xeno top gear, to rip many games (meaning i plugged in the video cable) which means i have probably generated at least 20 e64 errors since the bannings started that Doomful Tuesday.  Also i have connected back to Xbox Live after almost every time i would rip a game (as i did most of them seperately) to back it up.  And to this day i can still connect to Xbox Live without any problem.

these are just my experiences and this e64 error logging thing could be very real and maybe i just got lucky>>

You never know>
But just be very careful and use the iXtreme Firmware a God named C4Eva has provided for us...

the thing is that they could be logging it for use in the future. you could potentially sign on one day and get a ban message. most of these ban theories, while things that aren't bannable offenses now, could be in the future.  i'd try to keep my E64 count as low as possible, either by ripping my games with a kreon drive, or by using a x360 power connector -> 4 pin molex adapter.

[LIVE Prophet]

So, in other words, its only a matter of time before we all get banned....

That sucks.  

[Y0MAMA]

is it possible to dumb the data from a backup before going to XBL again?..maybe keeping an extra HD and and only use it when you are running backups(this is assuming the data is on the HD) since the chip does not alter the firmware is this a plausible solution to keep from banning?  any thoughts?

[mace1337]

QUOTE(Y0MAMA @ Jul 28 2007, 09:46 PM)

is it possible to dumb the data from a backup before going to XBL again?..maybe keeping an extra HD and and only use it when you are running backups(this is assuming the data is on the HD) since the chip does not alter the firmware is this a plausible solution to keep from banning?  any thoughts?

Won't work.

Simple fact: The information is stored on the flash of the xbox.
FYI: people without harddrives have also been banned.

I know that you guys are smart enough and the suggestions all sound logical, however,
all the information disproving your theories is on this forum.

Basically what I'm saying is: LURK MOAR!

[LIVE Prophet]

There you go, like I said before, its only a matter of time before we all get banned...