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[avineyard]

I have been thinking about the restrictions that are in place on a 360 once it is updated making its kernel not exploitable (I believe it is threw these means by which you can no longer homebrew your box) and I have a thought. When working on a pc if you choose to you can wipe the harddrive of the boot data, removing the os. At which point you can install a new os accordingly. With this wipe all data is gone, all updates, all drivers everything. Now obviously we don't have access to the xbox360 os (for all intents and purposes this is what I'll call it) so even if we could wipe the original x360 os from the box we don't have the data to put it back on. But if we were able to boot something like window washer system eraser and wipe the boot data off a box, is it possible that just like a pc the updates, os, virtually everything that tell it how to run would be gone? If so at this point the home-brew apps to my understanding have the ability to understand how to run .xex files ( xbox 360 game images), could we force a linux install onto the os wiped box and load the home-brew applications (presumably which would need some code alterations) onto this in order to boot .xex files?

I imagine if this were possible it is far more comlex then I am making it sound, however I've not seen the theory discussed and wanted to see what some of you with more experience in the that field have to say on the matter.

[m00nstone]

Dude, you need to learn more about computer hardware engineering, systems security (with a focus on DRM), and operating systems in general (forget about windows, linux etc, general O/S theory), before you can partake in this type of discussion.

You're not even close.

[avineyard]

Well there you have it. Good to know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Now outside of just saying no, can you aim me at some material so I can learn more about any part of the numerous things you have said I need more knowledge on? Something worth the while of reading as opposed to 10million pages of hits to drm.

This post has been edited by avineyard: Jan 23 2010, 03:03 AM

[m00nstone]

When it comes to educating I like to direct people to the most entertaining material first. I would start here:



More xbox360 specific modding information can be found here:

http://www.free60.org

But you really need to get a better understanding of computer science in general. That takes some serious ambition, but here is where I think everyone should start:

http://www.amazon.ca...t...6218&sr=8-3

[avineyard]

I'll read up on everything I can. Good to know that I'm so unread on a subject I'm entering into for school

[avineyard]

So at this time there are no theories on the possibility of downgrading or selectively removing the updates that make a box not jtag-able? I realize I don't know enough about it to get involved in depth but for my own curiosity...

[niai]

its not an update thats make the box none explitable it hardware based m$changed things in the cpu that can not be changed back

[avineyard]

I'm confused in regards to your comment that it is hardware based. I understand that new boxes would be hardware different but why then are old exploitable boxes no longer such once they receive online updates to a certain point? Do I have my information incorrect? Are only NEW boxes past a certain manufacture date not exploitable?

[amexie]

QUOTE(avineyard @ Jan 25 2010, 10:07 PM)

I'm confused in regards to your comment that it is hardware based. I understand that new boxes would be hardware different but why then are old exploitable boxes no longer such once they receive online updates to a certain point? Do I have my information incorrect? Are only NEW boxes past a certain manufacture date not exploitable?

its cause they blow fuses inside the cpu
and it will be  impossible to decap the cpu fix the fuses then put it all back together

[japher]

QUOTE(niai @ Jan 24 2010, 05:34 AM)

its not an update thats make the box none explitable it hardware based m$changed things in the cpu that can not be changed back

From wikipedia on 'eFuse':

"The primary application of this technology is to provide in-chip performance tuning. If certain sub-systems fail, or are taking too long to respond, or are consuming too much power, the chip can instantly change its behavior by 'blowing' an eFUSE. This process does not physically destroy the eFUSE, so it is reversible and repeatable, using JTAG Programming."

[avineyard]

Ok well now I'm even more confused. If they do something to the efuse the last post says that the efuse alterations ARE reversible?

[Downcastnut]

there are different types of eFuses and microsoft put the inreversible ones on their 360.

[thwack]

Technically (and I'm playing the devils advocate here), you could with a great deal of time and money, reverse engineer the process, and fart about with the 'fuses'......but would it be worth it? Prolly be 2020 by the time you've done it, and you'd be out of pocket by a substantial amount of money.

[niai]

when you get to talking about cup's the tech is so small its unbelievable that the circuits can exist so you can reverse it if you have an the time and money but the time is very long and the money we are getting close to a billion to do this i would say

[craz3d]

QUOTE(Downcastnut @ Jan 31 2010, 04:01 PM)

there are different types of eFuses and microsoft put the inreversible ones on their 360.

Please don't state your personal speculation as fact.

The truth of the matter is that to access the eFUSE banks, hackers would need to reverse engineer the communication protocols and instruction sets for the CPU JTAG.  Only after reverse engineering the required instructions would we be able to theoretically modify the data stored by the eFUSEs.