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[MaTiAz]

I'm pretty sure, that it wouldn't give the app more power, than the original Xbox. Maybe even a little less, seeing that some games choke sometimes when running on the emulator. Or maybe that's just because of the not perfect GPU emulation.

[Chancer]

As long as this thread stays the technical side its ok.
No posts of speculative is the hack real or fake at all.
Stick to answering the question asked

[Terdinglage]

My first instinct is it would run the same or worse since games on the 360 tend to run slow.  But, since our homebrew is obiously less graphic intensive and would require much less out of the GPU than does the games, perhaps it would run better.  Plus, we probably have acess to 512mb of ram to work with, because I imagine the emulator uses all of that RAM to try to get the Xbox 1 games up to speed, meaning it would only logically be able to be used by us.

[Terdinglage]

You are probably right, but I still want to believe we will speed up Daedalus a lil with that 512mb of RAM, otherwise if there is no speed increase, I see no distinct benefit with it over my modded xbox...

[MrEs]

QUOTE(Terdinglage @ Jun 28 2006, 11:22 PM)

You are probably right, but I still want to believe we will speed up Daedalus a lil with that 512mb of RAM, otherwise if there is no speed increase, I see no distinct benefit with it over my modded xbox...

that all depends on how emulation is done. It is possibly via a VM which would load up the same amount of ram as the xbox1 had.

[zerosignal0]

uhm correct me if Im wrong but I dont think it really has anything to do with the xbox 1 sdk...  I mean you can launch alot of xb1 games on the 360 so what would make your homebrew any different? The games still work so I think its a good stab at a mod but Im still a little iffy on how they plan on getting unsigned code to launch (Im sure this go further than my expertise on the xb360 hardware)  

just my .02

[cmiz]

xbox1: 1 x86 processor at 733 Mhz
xbox360: 1 ppc processor with 3 cores at 3.2 Ghz

I'm thinking that as long as you had a halfway decent emulation scheme, you could run anything on the 360 that you could on the xbox (perhaps even a bit more). NOTHING would beat native apps though... so that will need to be done somewhere down the road.

[BCfosheezy]

This thread is 100% speculation. Probably the only person here who you could ask that could shed ANY insight on your question is M Hael. That guy is a genious and he has contributed code TO the Xbox emulator the 360 uses. He has contributed code to various titles that have been released. The rest of us don't have a clue. If you're talking about running an emulator through the xbox emulator you're nuts.

[i800phyco]

QUOTE(BCfosheezy @ Jun 29 2006, 03:28 AM)

 If you're talking about running an emulator through the xbox emulator you're nuts.

I would think you could run snes and anything older with no prob,
that would make me happy.
I agree that it's a little odd to run an emulator with an emulator.


O cmodding I stole your words for my sig.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(i800phyco @ Jun 28 2006, 10:16 PM)

I would think you could run snes and anything older with no prob,
that would make me happy.
I agree that it's a little odd to run an emulator with an emulator.

I would think so too but that's not the point. The point is the cost of emulating hardware is huge. So running an emulator through an emulator is pretty ridiculous. Didn't you hang on to your xbox? Just use that.

[i800phyco]

QUOTE(BCfosheezy @ Jun 29 2006, 04:34 AM)

I would think so too but that's not the point. The point is the cost of emulating hardware is huge. So running an emulator through an emulator is pretty ridiculous. Didn't you hang on to your xbox? Just use that.

I cant argue that, in fact I spend more time on my ol xbox than my 360.

[PhoboX]

Based upon my own understanding of the technical aspects of the Xbox 1 and the way the 360 emulates it, I would say that any Xbox 1 homebrew running on the 360 would be given access to the same resources it would have on an original xbox, primarily to maintain compatibility with Xbox 1 games. The Xbox 360 emulation layer would use as much of the 360's power as is necessary to allow the emulated game/application to run at a speed comparable to the original Xbox, without actually allowing the emulated software access to that extra power directly.

Bearing in mind that most Xbox 1 games (especially those that do heavy networking via Live and are graphically intensive) are a lot more resource hungry than any Xbox 1 homebrew, I would expect most, if not all, of our current homebrew to run at full speed on the 360. In fact some of it would probably run faster under the 360's emulator than it does on the original Xbox, due the vast resources available on the 360 that the emulator would then use accordingly to keep the emulated software (homebrew in this case) running at optimal speed.

In another thread, somebody mentioned in relation to screenshots we saw, that apps running under the 360's emulator may be able to launch native 360 apps, for example from Avalaunch. I very much doubt this would be possible. My reasoning is as follows: Any Xbox 1 games running on the 360 emulator are totally unaware of the fact they are on a 360 and not an Xbox 1, therefore providing them a means to launch native 360 apps would be pointless. I suspect that anything running under the Xbox 1 emulator on the 360 would only have access to a protected layer of hardware, which to the running app/game would be the equivalent of an Xbox 1. It would not be given access to anything used/accessed by native 360 apps, such as most of the hard drive, the 360 dashboard etc etc. In effect, Xbox 1 homebrew on a 360 would have access to other Xbox 1 applications either on the HDD or on DVD, but nothing more. An example of an Xbox 1 app launching another Xbox 1 app under the emulator can be witnessed with most Live compatible Xbox 1 games, which often launch seperate apps on the dvd to access Live updates etc.

I personally therefore believe that the screenshots we saw are entirely real. However that is all I will say on the matter, I dont wish to see this thread closed.

[the joker]

this thread was far more constructive, good.

my thoughts is a bit different. I've looked through a lot of disassembled code of the 360, and to me it seems like the ppc processor is loaded with x86 opcodes... it would appear to the program to be a x86 cpu, and therefore just need some adjustments to make things work 100% in an "emulator" that injects the xbe's as xex as well as sets up the harddrives to the way xbox 1 expects.

That been said, I belive that xbox 1 homebrew through the emulator can unlock the massive speed of the 360. In fact, I'm willing to bet that it's under 10 lines of code to unlock the true power in it

 Ofcourse, how to use more than 1 core at a time, is beyond my imagination, but even one would be a whole lot of fun for starter.


Now, how to launch homebrew - is a bit unfamiliar to me yet. But as it have a lot of the weaknesses from the xbox1, it should be very possible to get into.

[MaTiAz]

QUOTE(the joker @ Jun 29 2006, 11:33 AM)

my thoughts is a bit different. I've looked through a lot of disassembled code of the 360, and to me it seems like the ppc processor is loaded with x86 opcodes... it would appear to the program to be a x86 cpu, and therefore just need some adjustments to make things work 100% in an "emulator" that injects the xbe's as xex as well as sets up the harddrives to the way xbox 1 expects.

Hmm, this is very interesting. Maybe there are "modes", like when playing 360 games, it runs code in 360 mode (allowing the game use more resources), and Xbox games run in Xbox 1 mode set up by the emulator so the games can use the x86 opcodes in the CPU?

Pure speculation, but still fun

[phrozenice]

QUOTE(the joker @ Jun 29 2006, 01:33 PM)

this thread was far more constructive, good.

my thoughts is a bit different. I've looked through a lot of disassembled code of the 360, and to me it seems like the ppc processor is loaded with x86 opcodes... it would appear to the program to be a x86 cpu, and therefore just need some adjustments to make things work 100% in an "emulator" that injects the xbe's as xex as well as sets up the harddrives to the way xbox 1 expects.

That been said, I belive that xbox 1 homebrew through the emulator can unlock the massive speed of the 360. In fact, I'm willing to bet that it's under 10 lines of code to unlock the true power in it

 Ofcourse, how to use more than 1 core at a time, is beyond my imagination, but even one would be a whole lot of fun for starter.
Now, how to launch homebrew - is a bit unfamiliar to me yet. But as it have a lot of the weaknesses from the xbox1, it should be very possible to get into.

I've been a programmer for many years and one of the things I can confirm to you is that pretending to be another system is extremely difficult. (one of the reasons windows has so many bugs is because of new M$ OS's pretending to be older ones, esp win98). Basically when ur emulating another system you concentrate so much on mimicking the older systems functions that you end up forgetting to lock out the new functions frmo being accessed ( this I know from personal experience).
I'm almost 100% sure that there are some exposed calls within the xbox1 emulator that M$ forgot to lock out.

ps. I've never posted before, usually just read, but this thread caught my eye. I'd almost given up on x-s after reading 60 pages of flames and lots of capital letters, but this topic is interesting.

ph²