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[bonevichio]

Is it possible to somehow connect a hard drive to the 360 and somehow have it recognized as a dvd drive?  I'm not sure what would be involved...maybe modifying the firmware of the hard drive and use a special type of partitioning format...? We have already seen from the hacked firmware that backups can be played by hardcoding the responses.  I wonder if possible to have a hard drive respond in the same way as the dvd drive atapi commands.  I've seen virtual dvd drives before (i think something like this in alcohol 120%).  The hard drive would contain your backups which do have signed executables that will run on the 360.  The spoof would be to somehow have the media check pass as a legitimate disc.  This would allow you to copy multiple backups onto your hard drive without having to pull out your original discs.  I've already bought halo 2 twice because the disc got scratched.  Even if this worked - it wouldn't be that exciting since you will not be able to run homebrew/unsigned code.  I feel like my original xbox is so much more versatile than the 360 just because of homebrew and especially XBMC.  I'd recommend XBMC with the mythtv script.  This post should probably be moved into 360 general - not hacking.  I posted in wrong place.  mods - please move.

[PedrosPad]

QUOTE(bonevichio @ Apr 20 2006, 03:22 PM)

Is it possible to somehow connect a hard drive to the 360 and somehow have it recognized as a dvd drive?  I'm not sure what would be involved.

These are known as DVD-Rom emulators and certainly exist in the world (See here).  They have been part of dev kits for other consoles.  So your idea is in no way silly.  I've never read that if they're used on the X360 console.  IIRC X360 dev kits use networking and the X360 own HDD when staging software to test.

Interestingly, some initial work was done in this direction for the XBOX1 by Numbnut, one of the original xbox-linux crew responsible for opening up the XBOX1 - Check out Parata - it suggests using a regular PC to simulate the peripheral device.

[PedrosPad]

QUOTE(BlueCop @ Apr 20 2006, 05:06 PM)

rewriting an entire harddrives firmware would be a very hard and would take a long time.

If you used a PC as the emulator (Parata style!), shirley you just need to be able to respond to the SATA protocol and send the replies/data when requested   (and don’t call me ‘Shirley’    ).

Sure any 'custom' call/responses will need to be re-implemented, such as interpreting the X360 DVD's security sector, etc. but that should fall a long way short of rewriting an entire firmware.

Alternatively, given that the X360 DVD-Rom drive's firmware can now be dumped to a PC - what about a PC-based 8051 CPU emulator executing the actual 8051 machine code, and pulling data sectors from an ISO file as required?  An emulator akin to this one

QUOTE(BlueCop @ Apr 19 2006, 04:32 AM)

i then also like to to use Emulator 8051 V1.0 by TS Controls it is also at http://bit.kuas.edu.tw/~8051/

An interesting, albeit aspirational, idea.

[bonevichio]

QUOTE(BlueCop @ Apr 20 2006, 06:00 PM)

The using the pc as the drive emulator would be a very cool implementation of a hack.

I definately agree - thanks for the input.  I'm going to try and get this all working.  I'm pulling all the info from xboxhacker.net forums - and using this info to my advantage.  Anyone interested in helping we can chat on irc.

[PedrosPad]

QUOTE(BlueCop @ Apr 20 2006, 06:00 PM)

The using the pc as the drive emulator would be a very cool implementation of a hack.

I suspect the challenges will be at the electrical connection level X360<->PC (I read that USB ends use different chipsets - not sure about SATA ).  I assume that a desktop PC should have no issues timing wise - given the availability of Xenon CPUs and 10,000RPM HDDs.

Although there is an irony in using a $1000 PC to emulate a $30 DVD-Rom drive.    Award for most expensive mod-chip?  

[bonevichio]

QUOTE(PedrosPad @ Apr 20 2006, 06:08 PM)

Although there is an irony in using a $1000 PC to emulate a $30 DVD-Rom drive.    Award for most expensive mod-chip?  

LOL....just like $1000 PC using MCE to serve out media files....

I really think I want to do this just to prove it could be done...more of proof of concept like the original 360 FW hack done by the specialist.  I would never release this if it works.

[PedrosPad]

QUOTE(BlueCop @ Apr 20 2006, 07:02 PM)

so what are your plans on how to start your project?

Just a suggestion...

I'd recommend an initial objective of plumbing a PC with dual SATA controllers between the X360 DVD-Rom drive, and the X360 motherboard.  And attempt to get the PC to act as a man-in-the-middle, and simply receive, log, and pass through the SATA requests.  This would build confidence that the PC in question is up to task of such emulation.

Even this initial stage would require a homework regarding SATA protocols, low-level driver work, etc.  You need to know how to capture and re-present the requests, and the same for the responses.  If you’re lucky, and depending on how the SATA protocol packets are formed, you may get away without needing to interpret the packet contents at this point.

I also get the impression Windows make this level of drive access even harder, so Linux may be the OS of choice.

Find a SATA DVD drive for Linux, and pull it apart until to you understand it, and get familiar with recompiling and deploying it – well before you even approach the X360.  In fact, I’d start with trying to be the man-in-the-middle of a 2nd PC and its SATA DVD-Rom drive – that way you’ve got control and visibility of all ends.

[The Anarchist]

how cool would this be if it were able to be done. if anyone is willing to take this project on i would be happy to donate some hardware be it hdds cd drive mobos ect as i have them just cluttering up my room.

just though it might help

The anarchist

[bonevichio]

QUOTE(BlueCop @ Apr 20 2006, 07:02 PM)

so what are your plans on how to start your project?

talk is just talk. how are you going to do this?

I think first thing to do would be to setup a website/wiki with some info on the project and current developments.  I'm going to boot up my pentium II cpu and begin working with an emulator.  I'll connect the pc to the 360's input cable.  I'm not sure how i'm going to exactly do this yet - i'm at work right now, the cpu isn't with me until 3 more hours...lol.   Then using the emulator send commands to the 360.  I'm going to use the knowledge on xboxhacker to work around the command/response for the dvd.  

I may also connect a second cpu to the emulator cpu to see if everything is communicating properly.  I can see if the emulator works sending commands to another cpu which thinks it's a dvd drive.  Once the communication is definately working - I can start using the FW hack info with the 360.

Why does work drag so bad when you want to work on your xbox?

QUOTE(PedrosPad @ Apr 20 2006, 07:17 PM)

Just a suggestion...

Find a SATA DVD drive for Linux, and pull it apart until to you understand it, and get familiar with recompiling and deploying it – well before you even approach the X360.

I have Debian installed on my pentium II.  Looks like a trip to compusa for a dvd....

I'm going to try doing this using just pc's before jumping into the X360.  As long as I can have the emulator properly communicate and spoof as a dvd on the pc side - then I can implement the ideas of the DVD FW hack to communicate with the 360.

[PedrosPad]

I imagine that if you were able to able to get a regular PC to emulate SATA peripherals, there’d be commercial uses for such technology.

Edit: Which makes me wonder if such a solution already exists? And, if not, why not? (Most opportunities are exploited.)  This could be an indication that it's just isn't possible.

[bonevichio]

QUOTE(PedrosPad @ Apr 20 2006, 07:35 PM)

I imagine that if you were able to able to get a regular PC to emulate SATA peripherals, there’d be commercial uses for such technology.

LOL....YEAH....if I do get this working maybe I could actually make some money in a useful project.  BTW HAPPY 4/20!

[TheSpecialist]

Very interesting project, but don't underestimate it ! You'll need to do a LOT of research into SATA implementation. Creating a SATA connection between your PC and the 360 will be, without a doubt, the hardest part of your hack.

Once you can read/send ATAPI packets over the SATA connection, you'll have to write the emulator itself. This will require a LOT of work. And don't forget that the (authentication related) communication is encrypted, some basic research has been done (see XBH), but the exact details of the AES encryption are still unknown, so you'll also have to do some hardcore RE-ing

So, again, a fun project, but don't underestimate it ....

*EDIT* I don't know much of the SATA protocol itself, would it even be possible to connect the 360 directly to the SATA controller from the PC ? But even if this works, the driver will still be a lot of work ...

[InfernO8]

This looks like an awesome project, although like TheSpecialist said I wouldn't underestimate what you're about to take on. I look forward to watching this progress, good luck.

[evilkeo]

from what i hear, the gamecube dev kits completely replaced the optical drive with a hard drive. this would be the same idea.

[PedrosPad]

QUOTE(programmingace @ May 16 2006, 02:55 AM)

Just my two cents, but i would start simple. Look at how the Xbox 1 works with the Raptor DVD emulator. Reverse engineer that and then work your way up to the 360. It would make sense for M$ to use a similar technology for the 360... *wink*wink*

More details on Raptor DVD emulator.