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[tikiboy]

To clarify my position...

I'm not saying that a lot of work hasn't already gone into this.  I've been reading the XBH posts, and it seems like they're making a lot of excellent progress.  Part of me really likes how inaccessible and foreign the shop talk is to most people; Xbox hacking, once it was pioneered, got painless for most of its enthusiasts.  None of them had to deal with assembly code, chip diagrams, expensive trial-and-error...  I applaud TheSpecialist and all of the dedicated unsung heroes of console modding.  

And I'm not urging a public release of a fully modified firmware.  To those who know the process, and I've seen some in this thread, that's not exactly the easiest thing to do at this point.  This isn't softmodding, folks; there's a little work involved.

If this is legitimate and universal (this is only proof of concept for PGR3, it was said to have been made to work for anything after the video was released--read XBH), it's only a matter of time before smart, determined people with the right tools and talent start offering drive modification online, or the sale of pre-modified consoles.  This isn't homebrew, it's not kernel hacking, but an Xbox 360 that can play burned games will be a very hot commodity.  Expect rip-offs galore.

And we don't even know if this is real yet.  I want to believe, but the video, which is going to attract much more attention than some technical discussions in a forum, offers too much room for doubt.

[CattyKid]

First, to all those doubting it, it IS real.  Do you know how I know?  Because the Specialist released it.  Because he proved it with Xbox.  Because he is known to be a 360 hacker.  Because his process is documented.  Because he, right now, is just about as reliable as Team Xecuter.  
And that brings me to Xbox Modchip Makers.  Notice the Waferboard next to the DVD drive in the video.  Think it's there for nothing?  Hmm??  I would say not.  It does SOMETHING.  So, you can bet that if the process is entirely documented that someone else, or a modchip maker, will soon replicate the hack and release it on THEIR new chip and make boatloads of money (assuming that there is little to no modification of the DVD drive (and the top doesn't have to be off).

QUOTE(General_Zod @ Mar 18 2006, 01:21 PM)

I agree. I'm glad this has finally been done but i'm not sure about whole purpose of doing it and not releasing how. It's like breaking into a bank vault, showing everyone you did it, and not taking any money. What's the point? What's the point in hacking the box, showing the world, and not releasing how you did it except to gloat?

I used to hack software was back in the day and we'd release it the same night it was hacked. We wouldn't put out a message saying "we hacked the latest and greatest game, but we just did it to prove it can be done so worry all you kiddies out there ha! we r0xor. " That's just stupid.

Apparently, you do not have the hacker mentality.  Have you ever done something just because people said you couldn't or it would take years, or it was near impossible?  Have you ever done something as a CHALLENGE to yourself?  Have you ever done something just to say you did it?  Because it's mentally stimulating?  
Have you ever played a game just to beat it and gotten all the unlockable content, but not put the gamesave online for everyone to use?  <<<< Same scenario.  
To all those complaining about Him (there is a reason that is a capital H) not releasing this, go do it yourself.  It is possible, as we have been shown.  What, can't hack/write code you say?  Then learn.  If you want something badly enough, you can do it.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I applaud you, The Specialist as well as your team, for everything you have done.  Keep up the good work and work on that unsigned code.

___________________________
On another note, could this be used as a bargaining chip for Homebrew people?
Listen:
The Specialist sends a "more convincing (apparently this wasn't good enough for some)" video to M$.  They say, "We want to talk."  The Specialist and his guys say, "Look.  We want you to sign some of our homebrew apps.  They won't let you do anything illegal, and you can review them before signing them as long as you want.  If you, don't well then, what if all this info were to be out in the open?"  Obviously it wouldn't be said that way (and could constitute blackmail, which may be bad).  
What about that?

[manu_xl]

let this firmware hack boot linux ... tux will do it!

salvation is on its way ;-)

in the mean time, great props to the specialist and his precious team  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/jester.gif)

This post has been edited by manu_xl: Mar 18 2006, 08:53 PM

[ShornYeti]

QUOTE(SlammedNiss @ Mar 18 2006, 09:18 PM)

That, would be the best thing the specialist could have done.

Not really - assuming he's in the US he'd just get thrown in jail. Anything that circumvents copy protection is illegal under the DMCA. Not that I GAF, look forward to playing backups when it does get released (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

However, if it allows me to run homebrew on the 360 its another matter. MS have been so ultragay over the failure to support xVid/DivX in the MCE and I desperately want to unplug my Xbox1 and benefit from HD streaming video

[Diablohead]

For what I understand you can only play 100% 1:1 backups because right now, still, if you edit anything in the game you break the key, causing like with a normal game, no bootup.

This just tells the 360 that the dvd-r is in fact an xbox360 legimet dvd, so I dont think cheating in games would come from this...yet, anyway.

i'm interested, mostly in whats being done and achieved through he x360 and modders, its way too advanced for my own attempts to do right now but something i've been waiting to hear.

I also agree that they should have used a wired pad to play the game on their video, it could still be semi-fake, but then the team is pretty legit

[Sallad_Tobar]

well done.... i think it's the right thing to do by not releasing it .

i do hope though that they would go on to create a multiregion dvd hack which would let you either play original dvd movies or games from other regions.

[SlammedNiss]

QUOTE(ShornYeti @ Mar 18 2006, 01:26 PM)

Not really - assuming he's in the US he'd just get thrown in jail. Anything that circumvents copy protection is illegal under the DMCA. Not that I GAF, look forward to playing backups when it does get released

However, if it allows me to run homebrew on the 360 its another matter. MS have been so ultragay over the failure to support xVid/DivX in the MCE and I desperately want to unplug my Xbox1 and benefit from HD streaming video

Perhaps, but consider MS's stance. Do you really think they want the gemeral public to know that you will be able to run backup's? It's already proven that they lose money on every console made. So, if Joe Public runs out and buys a 360, with the only intentions of playing backups, MS will lose millions in the long run. They'd be better off, hiring a person, such as the Specialist, to help better design security on their systems.

[ZakMcRofl]

QUOTE(Diablohead @ Mar 18 2006, 08:28 PM)

For what I understand you can only play 100% 1:1 backups because right now, still, if you edit anything in the game you break the key, causing like with a normal game, no bootup.

Ok lets explain it one more time:
You can't modify the XBE (executeable) which contains the code itself.
You can however modify every other file on the disc, unless the XBE makes a check on that file.

So you could modify videos, textures, sound files, maps, tracks, you name it. You could make custom content, put in your own music and so on.

But you're right about the cheating, it wouldn't be a big issue IMHO. Mainly because the code itself would still be protected and also because a game developer could easily check data files for authenticity (MD5 checksum or at least check for correct size) from the XBE.

[gusradio]

Way to go Specialist!!

Thank you for all your Hard Work and for releasing your research data.

I'm glad your not releasing it not only becasue it would lead to rock solid lawsiuts and the throw down of many heavy hammers but becasue the scene needs to have people like yourself and other hackers verify and double check and perfect the process before someone else can Anonymously release the hack with full easy to understand instructions for underlings like myslef.

thanks you are a patriot!

[Sanitarium]

It's a good start that's for sure.  M$ must have spent millions on the security aspects alone.  I'm going to have Bill Gates sign my 360 so I can run unsigned code.

[ShornYeti]

QUOTE(SlammedNiss @ Mar 18 2006, 09:31 PM)

Perhaps, but consider MS's stance. Do you really think they want the public to know that you will be able to run backup's? It's already proven that they lose money on every console made. So, if Joe Public runs out and buys a 360, with the only intentions of playing backups, MS will lose millions in the long run. They'd be better off, hiring a person, such as the Specialist, to help better design security on their systems.

Maybe, if they've changed their policy - it used to be the case that if you were a hacker they had nothing to do with you. The thing with code is that its very difficult to determine whether someone with a dubious background (e.g. a hacker) hasn't put some sort of backdoor in.

The Xbox business model is interesting for MS - in a way they aren't that much of a software publisher (certainly not as much as Sony are for example). Only software publishers care about backups being run. Of course they will support a secure system because it means they sell more content, which means you get more killer apps and MS sells more consoles...

I still don't understand why MS have hobbled the Media Center functionality to exclude formats like xVid and DivX, a huge missed opportunity to own the (growing) media center market. As it is, that market is still owned by their hacked and expensive (for MS - they make a loss on every box) Xbox 1...

[kics]

now the next big news i will expect is what M$ has to say about this, about all the new improvements they made with the security and bla bla bla... so, can't wait to hear from them..

[zikronix]

very impressive i must say...Currently though the things that will need to happen for average joe to do this

They said each drive has a unique key.

some one will need to come put with a a way of getting that key then modifiying a firmware and putting that key in it then flashing it via software...While I think it will be released i think you will see a rash of "The firmware doesnt work on my box" or "I killed my box with the firmware"

unless these "simplifications" are made.

[.:Dino:.]

QUOTE

Nice the xbox 360 is hacked, but, do you really need to open the 360 like in the video. If so, I am not horribly interested then and wait for a *real* modchip.

haha thats funny, good luck with your external modchip.

[nooodle]

*waits for ms to patch his 360 over Live*