Topic: Bunnie about Xbox 360 Kiosk Demo Disc (Read 614 times)

Serious Sam · « **Reply #15 on:** January 03, 2006, 07:23:00 AM »

This is a bit different than the Dreamcast situation. The Dreamcast was hacked because of it's GD-ROM technology which provided little security. The 360 has security on it's discs and hardware so this is a totally different situation entirely. MS released a disc without a media flag, this does not compare to Dreamcast hacking at all.

feflicker · « **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2006, 09:56:00 AM »

QUOTE

There's no single person who did everything with regards to the Xbox. What bunnie did was extremely important (and a huge accomplishment) - but please don't try to make too much of it either. He did one part, others did theirs.

Bunny sniffed a high-speed hyper-transport bus that MS$ engineers didn't even believe was possible using his own custom built tools in an MIT Lab. In-fact, it is believed that he was the first person to effectively sniff this type of bus. He was able to obtain the secret ROM and the RC4... He discovered how the memory tables worked and decrypted the 2nd bootloader, making it possible to "patch" the BIOS. He was able to get ALL of the information required to "start" the scene. Without Bunnies work the rest of the achievements would have been meaningless/impossible (booting from lpc, hacking dash fonts, etc).

Could someone else eventually have done it? Sure. But they didn't, Bunnie did it.

I do not claim to be an x86 architecture expert, but I have been reading about the scene for years now... If there is anyone else out there that did anything remotely as important/difficult as Bunnie did, please, fill me and the scene in

EDIT: Forgot to post on the actual topic

This is good news from the Bunnie camp. He throws out a few possibilities for sniffing, and even talks about some of the 360's security (some if it even unproven). Looks like the Kiosk disc got more than just a few punk kids excited, and that is good news for the scene

theiz · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2006, 10:13:00 AM »

Sorry,

For N00B's like me

: What is the story on Bunnie regading the 360?
I know he did a great deal on the XBOX1, but why is he not contributing directly on the 360?

thebroken · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2006, 10:23:00 AM »

no one is sure why not he has just said he doesn't want to be a key contributor

feflicker · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2006, 10:35:00 AM »

QUOTE

no one is sure why not he has just said he doesn't want to be a key contributor

He's also made statements about how difficult it will be, as MS$ has done a much better job with security. I am sure the guy has a life to, so maybe he just doesn't have time...

You know deep down he would like to be the guy (again) though

feflicker · « **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2006, 11:05:00 AM »

QUOTE

You haven't been reading much if you're seriously asking. It's very true that sniffing the RC4 key in Xbox v1.0 was vital - and that the rest followed - but that does not mean that other achievements (like accessing MCPX secret bootcode) were not equally as important.

My post was a "hey, there were lots of others besides bunnie" - not a "bunnie didn't do much" (because he indeed did - that sniffer was very impressive).

I wouldn't be the scenes first choice as person to argue for Bunnie, I can admit that. I don't know all the details, but I definately know more than most. I do believe that Bunny was the one who dumped/analyzed the secret code btw (at least some whitepapers say it was him). Regardless, I get your point and I see where you were/are coming from

I agree with you on the 1.1, thankfully they had the 1.0 to learn from. It was less than a week before the 1.1 was cracked with the info from the 1.0

Here's to hoping the next Bunnie is out there right now with an Xbox360 and a bunch of homeade tools in a lab on the verge of a breakthrough

fol1c · « **Reply #21 on:** January 03, 2006, 11:16:00 AM »

I think the reason Bunnie might not be helping in the scene, is because MS paid him some money, or had a talk with him. I don't know, i just have this feeling MS had something todo with him not helping out.

axess68 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 03, 2006, 11:53:00 AM »

QUOTE(fol1c @ Jan 3 2006, 07:23 PM)

I think the reason Bunnie might not be helping in the scene, is because MS paid him some money, or had a talk with him. I don't know, i just have this feeling MS had something todo with him not helping out.

Ahh, but like any good miscreant, he can't resist.

I think Bunnie's message was very cryptic... and the meaning was "You're on the RIGHT TRACK. Keep at it!"

fol1c · « **Reply #23 on:** January 03, 2006, 12:26:00 PM »

QUOTE(axess68 @ Jan 3 2006, 08:00 PM)

Ahh, but like any good miscreant, he can't resist.

I think Bunnie's message was very cryptic... and the meaning was "You're on the RIGHT TRACK. Keep at it!"

agreed

RX3 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 03, 2006, 01:33:00 PM »

It's pretty obvious why Bunnie is not getting involved with hacking the Xbox 360. When he hacked the Xbox and wrote his book, the Department Of Justice and MS were looking to nail him criminally and civil. He's now out of school and probably has a good job making good money. Why would he want to risk everything he now has to go to jail or get sued for something that's not going to really profit him?

Back when he hacked the Xbox, The Department of Justice used the DMCA to shut down ISOnews.com, a Web site partly used to distribute Xbox-hacking tools, and sent the site's owner to prison. This scared the crap out of Bunnie I'm sure.

axess68 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 03, 2006, 03:03:00 PM »

QUOTE(RX3 @ Jan 3 2006, 09:40 PM)

Back when he hacked the Xbox, The Department of Justice used the DMCA to shut down ISOnews.com, a Web site partly used to distribute Xbox-hacking tools, and sent the site's owner to prison. This scared the crap out of Bunnie I'm sure.

Doesn't that situation sound asanine to you? Imagine the conversation in prison: Webmaster: "What are you in for?" , Prisoner: "I killed a bunch of people. What about you?", Webmaster: "I pissed off MS by distributing pirate programs on my website."

Sending people to prison because of a DMCA violation is just asanine. I can think of LOTS more REAL CRIMINALS that deserve that guy's spot in a cell.

myst1x · « **Reply #26 on:** January 03, 2006, 05:21:00 PM »

QUOTE(axess68 @ Jan 3 2006, 05:10 PM)

Doesn't that situation sound asanine to you? Imagine the conversation in prison: Webmaster: "What are you in for?" , Prisoner: "I killed a bunch of people. What about you?", Webmaster: "I pissed off MS by distributing pirate programs on my website."

Sending people to prison because of a DMCA violation is just asanine. I can think of LOTS more REAL CRIMINALS that deserve that guy's spot in a cell.

Unfortunately, even though it is completely ridiculous, it's what happens.

On topic:
Yes, Bunnie's message could have been cryptic... but, then again, not. People might be reading too deeply into his words because they're hoping too hard that Bunnie will come through big like he has in the past. The 360 will be cracked eventually, we just need to find some breakthroughs that make it sooner rather than later.

MaTiAz · « **Reply #27 on:** January 03, 2006, 05:27:00 PM »

Yeah, it's crazy. Here in Finland, the new copyright law makes you pay fines if you buy a cd, then circumvent the copy protection and rip it to your MP3 player. If you download the same cd illegally from internet and put it to your MP3 player, nothing happens to ya :/

It sucks, I know.

Bizquick · « **Reply #28 on:** January 04, 2006, 09:42:00 AM »

You all are right bunnie has done alot for the scene. I'm kind of supprised he thinks this disc is that much of a key. But then again we have found out how to do a few things because of it.

Anyway I agree with most of you about these guys going to prison for copyright infrigment. I think its serious but at the same time there is no way I would think these guys should sit in a cell. When they have so many child rapest's and killers out there. I think lock up is for real harsh crimes. not this software infrigment. I say software crimes need a diffrent court system. I mean if you copy a game one month and the price is 50.00 and then 4 or 5 months later the price drops to half or less. then your not steeling 50.00 your taking 25 or less,

Math1 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 04, 2006, 09:38:00 PM »

That is a complete BS argument. If you steal a car tofday, you get charged with grand theft, auto -- it doesn't matter tha tthe same car is worth less a year later.

Stealing is stealing. If you make your living making a product and people steal it, how is that any different than coming to your house and ripping off your property? You guys claim to like games and gaming, yet you seem to see nothing wrong with ripping off the people who make them. Games aren't made by faceless giant corporaitons, they are made by VERY hardworking people who pay bills, raise kids, and feed their families. Ripping off software or music or movies is every bit as much a crime as stealing their possessions directly would be.

As to Bunnie, he did some great and complicated work on the Xbox and his method of sniffing the bus was really clever. It helped that he had access to an MIT lab full of equipment -- and that he is really, really smart

I did get a little tired of his claims to pure motives based on his concerns over the Xbox security. And also was pretty surprised that MIT would actually support his publication of a paper on the subject. He did it for the same reason a lot of people hack systems -- to see if he could. Trying to justify it as something more seems a little weak. I owul dguess he isn't too involved inXbox 360 becaue he has better things to do -- lik emaking a living

There really is nothing noble about this stuff -- it is just a hobby that is intellectually challenging and it opens up a lot of new uses for the hardware -- but we shouldn't kid ourselves that we aren't in the process opening up the box for criminals to exploit for piracy.

Personally, I think they should have made the 360 easy to do homebrew for, but secure for commercial games. But then, the hackers who only care about piracy would have to admit their motives. And it wouldn't be nearly as much fun as trying to figure out a way around the security.

Author Topic: Bunnie about Xbox 360 Kiosk Demo Disc (Read 614 times)