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[Enox]

You don't really have to make another username just to say that again. That's not proof, what a proof is, is when PI exactly tells you or the public how they did it. Speculation is never a proof. Let me ask you this, who told you that it can't be FTPed exactly? oh please tell me that PI did tell you that, cause if not, then that's a useless statement.

[Monoxboogie]

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 16 2005, 07:54 PM)

LOL the Gamecube discs never spins backwards you dumb nuts, the gamecube had a barcode protection as well as the offset of the written data is slightly changed which is the reason why it had a very secured protection, it doesn't spin backwards. Do some research at a gamecube scene site because that's just a noob statement.

Now lets get back to the method, You think that those Xbox 360 ISOs were made using a modified PC-DVD-ROM drive? is that what your point is? if yes, then it's very possible, but I think my method which is using the Xbox 360 itself to make an ISO is much more simpler and much more possible than using a firmware on a PC Drive. This method will not only be possible for the release groups, but the public can take advantage of this as well. The Xbox 360 ISO "having all the same size" has nothing to do with using a PC-DVD Drive, you can get an exact same size of ISO with the right program, if you've been on the Gamecube scene you will know that it's very possible ripping a Full ISO from a Disc using the Gamecube console.

I concede the point about the gamecube games not spinning backwards.  I swore I read that one of the features the the chip I have reverses the spin making it possible to use regular discs, but I was wrong.

However, your method is still wrong.  How exactly do you propose to use a Xbox 360 to rip the games?  How are you going to take control over the device to make it spit the data to a format that can later be analyzed?  We lack a way to take control of the processor as of yet, and as such, have no way to make it do our bidding.

The Xbox 360 ISO's being the same size has nothing to do with being a PC-DVD-ROM, that's correct.  However, the nature of the ripping process (that is, a bit-for-bit copy of the data on the disk) is what creates the same size.  This is why current unextracted Xbox 1 ISOs are not the same size...we no longer copy the entire bit-for-bit representation of the disk.  We only pull the files off of the filesystem, and do with them what we will.

And it can't be FTP'd.  If it was, it'd be cracked.  And if the 360 was cracked, we'd see chips.  No group would wait for a release of chips; the sooner they release it, the higher the chance for money.  Just accept it.

[crosseye]

First of all Enox you are totally taking the PI statement out of context. They DID NOT say the 360 security is the same. They DID say the discs are similiar. PLEASE absorb this. I KNOW how PI dumped the games, and so do many others. They have NOT cracked the 360. They have NOT found a way to FTP the 360. They have NOT found a way to use the DVD from the 360 in a PC yet. THey did NOT need to FTP an xbox to dump original xbox games, and that goes for ANY group that knew how to do it. They did NOT need to take the original xbox drive and use it in a PC. They did NOT need a modded xbox.
The security in the 360 is VASTLY different than what was in the xbox. I hope you can understand this. It's very simple, or so I thought. Once again, I am not trying to take away creativity from people. I hope you all try everything. I AM SIMPLY TELLING YOU HOW IT IS DONE.  You ARE wrong when it comes to this instance. Hypothetical ideas about how someone could "possibly" dump a game are not the point here. There is a way they are dumping them and it has NOTHING to do with what you keep trying to say. Please just read and comprehend this post.

[Monoxboogie]

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 16 2005, 11:05 PM)

Making ISOs via FTP would only be partial and not fully cracked. Lets look at the gamecube for a sec. as an example, When gamecube ISOs was first released to the public, there was no way of using it. So you might ask how the hell did Echelon made an ISO image of a Gamecube game? the answer to that is that they have streamed it via network(similar to FTP), but can you play the gamecube ISOs? no, ppl had to wait a few months until they've finally been able to use these ISO's.

Like I said FTPing an ISO won't mean that the system is fully cracked and that you can play the ISO right away. Making an ISO is just the first step and has nothing to do with the console being fully cracked.

Incorrect.  Once Echoman had FTP working, he was running non-Nintendo code on the Gamecube.  A console is cracked once you can run non-official code on it.  Therefore, it was fully cracked.  However, if you remember the Xbox scene, the first dash hacks and font exploits were used for installing Linux and running legal software.  At that point, it was fully cracked.  However, it took some engineering of the exploits before people figured out how to run commercial games on it.

Typically, those *most* interested in the hacks (and most capable), and the forerunners of the exploitation of machines are those who have more legitimate purposes than those who want to steal games.

I really don't care if Xbox 360 games run on a cracked console or not.  Just give me those 3 glorious PPC cores for Linux, and leave me alone.  Of course, I'm not a forerunner in 360 development; I don't yet own a console.  If I get one, I'll gladly take my hand at it.

Your idea is good...for once we get the framework.  In fact, that's probably how it will be done.  But that's not how it was done.

[Enox]

QUOTE(Monoxboogie @ Dec 16 2005, 03:03 PM)

Incorrect.  Once Echoman had FTP working, he was running non-Nintendo code on the Gamecube.  A console is cracked once you can run non-official code on it.  Therefore, it was fully cracked.  However, if you remember the Xbox scene, the first dash hacks and font exploits were used for installing Linux and running legal software.  At that point, it was fully cracked.  However, it took some engineering of the exploits before people figured out how to run commercial games on it.

Typically, those *most* interested in the hacks (and most capable), and the forerunners of the exploitation of machines are those who have more legitimate purposes than those who want to steal games.

I really don't care if Xbox 360 games run on a cracked console or not.  Just give me those 3 glorious PPC cores for Linux, and leave me alone.  Of course, I'm not a forerunner in 360 development; I don't yet own a console.  If I get one, I'll gladly take my hand at it.

Your idea is good...for once we get the framework.  In fact, that's probably how it will be done.  But that's not how it was done.

Yes it's cracked when u can run FTP on it but that won't mean you can run the games already and I think you finally understand that. It would take time for chips to come out and exploits to run these commercial ISO games, I think we are on the same page here at least on this matter.

I fully agree with your last line as it shows some optimistic.

[crosseye]

Enox, what the hell is your problem man? Are you seriously thick headed or something. Whether YOUR idea could work ONE day or not is NOT what we are talking about here. Why can't you get this through your freakin head. There is NO speculation on my part as to how PI dumped the games.
Just so I understand you, you are questioning their method right? You are still in doubt as to how it is done?
If either of those is a question still in your head, you have totally missed EVERYTHING I have been telling you. You're wondering how they got dumps 3 weeks in? THE SAME WAY THEY DID WITH XBOX! Did you understand that? If you're still thinking the way many did it with the first xbox games involved an xbox at all, you are totally lost and I can not get it through to you. What YOU are currently talking about to dump 360 games is all SPECULATION. What I am telling you is FACT.

EDIT: I just want to make this clear for the last time. FTP WAS NOT USED! I don't care if it's a future possibility, I'm talking about what was used.

[Monoxboogie]

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 17 2005, 12:18 AM)

Yes it's cracked when u can run FTP on it but that won't mean you can run the games already and I think you finally understand that. It would take time for chips to come out and exploits to run these commercial ISO games, I think we are on the same page here at least on this matter.

I fully agree with your last line as it shows some optimistic.

You fail.  Do not pass go.  Do not collect $200.

A console is not cracked "when you can run FTP on it."  The running of the FTP was done in such a way that the processor was taken over, and it was instructed to do something the device wasn't programmed to do.  In effect, *ANY* code could be run.  The running of the FTP could not have been done without some sort of soft or hard mod.  If there was some sort of native FTP functionality, then it wouldn't have been a big deal for him to rip an ISO.  *IF* the processor can be made to open an FTP connection, it can be made to load anything else in that wonderful DOL format, including games.  However, as I tryed to imply before, there's a difference between proof of concept and theft.  Echoman was the proof of concept.  The people who then distributed the games, and created the chips to play pirate games were involved in theft.

Now, I don't care at all about gamecube anymore.  The fact that I knew *anything* about Gamecube was pot luck.  Your knowledge of gamecube doesn't mean anything here.  You could be echoman himself, and you wouldn't be worth anything.  You've been posting on these boards for 2 days, and you've picked fights who have been posting for over a year.  What a wonderful way to gain acceptance and appreciation in the community.  I believe I've covered this from every angle possible.  I have nothing more to say about this topic; at least in this thread.  

And my last line isn't really optimistic.  It's true.  Once we can run our own code on the device, we can do what we please.  Some will opt to run Linux.  Some will opt to use the Xbox 360 as a low cost (compared to all other currently existing devices that cost the same) multi-core, non-x86 development platform to enhance their coding.  And others will opt to use them for devious purposes, and steal software.  So, using the console to rip the games isn't really an optimistic statement.  It's actually one of the worst outcomes.  But say whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Monoxboogie]

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 17 2005, 06:14 AM)

obviously you guys all disagree with the FTP method, but let me tell you that it is possible in any console if that would be the only way and it has proven to work for Dreamcast, Gamecube, and the first Xbox. But right now there has been a new method of getting your own ISOs made and it came from a french website, it doesn't have anything to do with ATAPI Commands just to let you kno, but it does require a DVD Drive.

Yes it's possible.  But only when you can run homebrew code.  We can't, so it's currently impossible.

And I assure you that any method (funny how you mention a method, but don't provide any evidence...YET AGAIN) involving a DVD Drive involve ATAPI commands.

According to google's define: functionality, ATAPI is....Advanced Technology Attachment (ATA) Packet Interface. An interface between a computer and its internal peripherals such as DVD-ROM drives. ATAPI provides the command set for controlling devices connected via an IDE interface. ATAPI is part of the Enhanced IDE (E-IDE) interface, also known as ATA-2. ATAPI was extended for use in DVD-ROM drives by the SFF 8090 specification.

Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it's not happening.  By virtue of it using the DVD drive (and assuming it exists), it utilized ATAPI commands.

[Monoxboogie]

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 17 2005, 06:53 AM)

You can't really say something impossible when you would also say its possible. That just won't make sense.

And about the ATAPI, I should've said "modified ATAPI commands". So I guess what I was really trying to say is that theres really no need for modified ATAPI commands to make the dvd drive read the disc for this method.

It is currently impossible to run FTP on a 360.  There is CURRENTLY no known way to do so, which makes it impossible.  With knowledge we gain, it may eventually become possible.  But currently, its not.  If I am wrong, then do it.  If you are unable to do so, I kindly invite you to partake in a warm, tall glass of STFU.  I hear it tastes wonderful with Eggnog.

There's also no such thing as modified ATAPI commands.  If we were to modify them, then the drive wouldn't understand them.  I would like to once again point out that though you reference a "new" method, you provide no proof, and no verification.  Have you tried this "new DVD Drive method?"  Did it work?  Chances are the answer to both is "no."  Until you do so, I kindly ask that you once again indulge in that glass off STFU...mmmm....tasty.

[jameswalter]

You all might be interested in this .... http://forums.xbox-s...4

Its for real...whether you believe it or not.

[InterestedHacker]

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 16 2005, 11:13 PM)

You don't really have to make another username just to say that again. That's not proof, what a proof is, is when PI exactly tells you or the public how they did it. Speculation is never a proof. Let me ask you this, who told you that it can't be FTPed exactly? oh please tell me that PI did tell you that, cause if not, then that's a useless statement.

Who are you accusing of using two logins on here??  Just out of interest?

[InterestedHacker]

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 17 2005, 08:25 AM)

no thanks, I don't need a supplier of STFUs, I dont like to talk a lot like you and talk with no sense, impossible and then suddenly saying it's possible, that some shitty. Well you only modify it the first time by debugging it, the disc should be read and the atapi commands is back on normal. But ATAPI's is not really the point here, you should know by now that what we are talking about here are methods of how PI dumps games. ATAPI is only a minor part of the subject. And no I haven't tried this new method but others already confirmed it working, I never said it works because I would personally have to try it before believing something. I think you guys need some STFUs too cause I keep telling about FTP and then you guys just bounce back that it can't work and we just bounce back the same thing everytime. So I'm pretty sure you guys would need some STFUs and order a combo for all of you.

EDIT: I think he misread your post!  I had to read it twice!  As for FTP, on ANY other previous console, I would agree with your suggestion of running a rogue FTP application, that can read the XBOX FS.  With the 360, it's going to take some time to get past hypervisor, if it's possible at all, and my guess is that we will be here 18 months from now still discussing hypervisor (I would LOVE to be wrong).

I would say that it's possible that someone ripped games via FTP, but the odds are very very high, like 1 in 1,000,000,000, due to hypervisor.  If they get control of the CPU, then the whole thing is blown out of the water and they can pretty much run anything on it.

[Arakon]

QUOTE

if you remember the Xbox scene, the first dash hacks and font exploits were used for installing Linux and running legal software. At that point, it was fully cracked. However, it took some engineering of the exploits before people figured out how to run commercial games on it.

uhh... the dash hacks and font exploits happened AGES after modchips.. the xbox had been "fully cracked" long before those.
as for Pi, they didn't use ftp, or anything at all on the 360. they used a certain PC drive and a certain app with a tiny modification. the 360 is still completely "uncracked", they didn't even have to touch one.

[crosseye]

QUOTE(Arakon @ Dec 17 2005, 05:44 AM)

uhh... the dash hacks and font exploits happened AGES after modchips.. the xbox had been "fully cracked" long before those.
as for Pi, they didn't use ftp, or anything at all on the 360. they used a certain PC drive and a certain app with a tiny modification. the 360 is still completely "uncracked", they didn't even have to touch one.

This is what I have been telling him over and over. Enox, there was ONE way PI dumped the games. Your SPECULATION is POINTLESS. There is as a matter of FACT ONE way they dumped the games. Is this getting through? Who gives a flying fook if in the FUTURE, FTP could be used. We are talking about the PRESENT, in which a 360 was not even needed. Your efforts to go back and point out how FTP was used on the original xbox also show a total lack of knowledge AND any ability to comprehend. Just like 360, they did NOT need an xbox to dump games. They did NOT FTP. Is this finally getting through?
You keep constantly going back to pure SPECULATION on what you "think" they could have done. Who gives a shit what you "think". We are telling you this IS how it was done. Seriously, I've never met someone so hard headed and unable to deal with the truth.

[Monoxboogie]

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 17 2005, 07:25 AM)

no thanks, I don't need a supplier of STFUs, I dont like to talk a lot like you and talk with no sense, impossible and then suddenly saying it's possible, that some shitty. Well you only modify it the first time by debugging it, the disc should be read and the atapi commands is back on normal. But ATAPI's is not really the point here, you should know by now that what we are talking about here are methods of how PI dumps games. ATAPI is only a minor part of the subject. And no I haven't tried this new method but others already confirmed it working, I never said it works because I would personally have to try it before believing something. I think you guys need some STFUs too cause I keep telling about FTP and then you guys just bounce back that it can't work and we just bounce back the same thing everytime. So I'm pretty sure you guys would need some STFUs and order a combo for all of you.

I assure you I speak with a great deal of sense.  Many of the other intelligent people around seem to understand what I'm saying.

And no matter how many times you say it, it's still going to be a resounding "no; that's not how they did it."  PI did not use FTP to create the dumps.  The only time FTP could have come into place would be after the creation of the dump, to transfer from the machine (note:  PC; not Xbox 360) to the machine hosting the dumps to the rest of the internet.  End of story.

And while there is a new method to create dumps, this *STILL* doesn't substantiate your claim of FTP.  In fact, the French web site's method goes further to disprove your earlier conjecture.

I hope they come out with modchips soon.  And I hope you fry your box installing it.  Or that you pay entirely too much in order to get it installed.  Either way, I hope a huge financial burden is placed on you in getting your box chipped.