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[reddragon72]

Let me give you a little history. AVI containers were created by microsoft back in windows 3.1 and had then a very limited amount of space. As time went on MS continued to update the container until they dropped it for the ASF container(mainly created for streaming) well that did not go over well for video archiving since the video would be served from a local harddrive and the ASF was designed for streaming. Then MS created the WMV container that could do both streaming and archiving. So in the light of WMV MS found no need to develop the AVI or ASF containers anymore. So the AVI container was stuck with a 2Gig file size limit. Well that wasn't working for those that used the Xvid and Divx codecs, so they went to work to fix it and created a way that will allow the AVI container to run over the 2Gig limit hince the openDML you are seeing. OpenDML works for the most part but masks the true AVI contents when it passes 2gigs, cause it actually takes the two or more file parts and melds them together. Now I could be off on a few things there, but it is basically just a run down.

So now that you have seen the openDML you have seen the issue. I just found it last night while running the encode through TMPGEnc. There is an extra tab that will allow you to set a container size upto 4gigs. Also after loking into this it seems to also be an issue with XBMP from back in 2004, not sure if a cure was found, but we can try putting the Xvid file Divx container and see what happens.

[septurious]

Ahhh that totally makes sense about the openDML but what about seeing this type of thing in GSpot when you look at the "full" file?

Note: 1.00 GB unneeded bytes at end of fileMultipart OpenDML AVI (3 parts)
(63317 frames in first part, 158578 frames follow)
Interleave: 1 vid frame (42 ms), preload=512
Audio frames: Aligned on interleaves

The file is right around 7.3gb in size and GSpot doesn't seem able to "analyze" the video like it does with the non-openDML type file. (Like the info below)

Video: 1.21 GB (89.02%)
Audio: 150 MB (10.76%)
AVI Overhead: 3.09 MB (0.22%)

So TMPGEnc will allow you to up the container size to 4gbs? That would certainly help but with many movies going past the 4gb mark wouldn't cure the problem entirely correct?

If I wanted to try joining several of these together myself outside of Virtualdub is there a program that you would recommend?

Good stuff!

Iskondi

[reddragon72]

Ok first read up here on some issues with openDML http://www.alexander...ut_opendml.html then go here and read through all the issues that they had with the XBMP http://forums.afterd...view.cfm/229672 that will give you some insight as to how crappy and shoddy the openDML extention is.

I have however made a small breakthrough. I have produced an Xvid-HS(1280x544) vid with AC3 5.1ch that does not skip! BUT....... it is not smooth, you can tell that there is a framerate issue in there somewhere as it kinda skips a frame every 4 seconds, it is noticable, but not entirely a killer... My problem with this output is that it is not perfect, and it uses VBR with spike in the 12000k range and the movie never skips a beat. so now I have to figure out why the video is skipping one frame every 4 seconds or so.

I use nandub to meld Xvid and AC3 files together. it is super easy and takes no time at all.

Also MS resonded to my question as to the skipping in Xvid AC3 videos and they said "We have no issues using our encoding method and keeping within the bitrates provided in the December update FAQ."

well now I emeailed them back asking them about there method and what length the video was, we shall see what they have to say about that.

[septurious]

I'll read through those posts in a moment but was interested in how you're doing your movies. You're encoding video with TMPGenc correct? And how are you created the VBR AC3 5.1 file? I'll take a look at nandub.

lol and Microsoft's response is so very Microsoft, if they'd freaking tell us how they encode it then it would be a bit more helpful.

I've taken Batman Begins and split it into two parts, the first at 70 minutes is 2,131,925,694 bytes is NOT openDML and plays back without any glitches, the 2nd part is smaller and also plays back without issue, however, if they are combined together into an openDML AVI then voila you have glitching.

So it's pretty obvious that there is some sort of issue related to openDML, AC3 5.1 sound and the Xbox 360.

I'll post back after reading the threads you mentioned.

Iskondi

[septurious]

Ok, so stupid question time number 2. After reading the links that you posted I have to ask, is there a way to encode the AC3 5.1 audio using Microsoft's AVI Mux Filter?

Or is there a way to tell AVI-Mux GUI to encode it in the same way? It stands to reason that Microsoft has probably put their stuff on the Xbox 360 and if they'd like the AVI to have 33% more overhead so it'll play without any glitches, I'm willing to try it and see if it works :-P

Until then, I think I'll stick with my split up non openDML files and combine em back together if we figure out a fix.

Iskondi

[reddragon72]

I muxed my AC3 file with my vid file in nandub. Nandub has a special selector for AC3 and MP3 and such so it makes it really easy to do. For my DTS sources I use DTS2AC3 then take the AC3 file and mux it. As for muxing in other programs I'll give it a try.

Also they talk of openDML V1 and V2 and V2 seems to be the way to go, but I'm still digging for info on what programs actually use OpenDML V2.

I want to work faster on all this but during the week it is had to as I work so much. and the next few eekends will be rough with family coming and all, no time. I will work on it when I can though cause I really want to wrap this up!

BTW they are also saying that openDML V1 will not play on stand alone players but V2 will, so I am working with the ways that they create thos files, to get V2. This is all to frign ridiculas, someone should just step up with info on where to get all this V1 and V2 crap from.

[chrislynch]

Check this out.

This page talks about OpenDML and what it's for.  Just did a quick search.  Don't know if you already have seen this.

[septurious]

Hey Chrislynch,

That's actually exactly the link that reddragon72 pasted a few posts earlier :-)

Iskondi

[reddragon72]

Ok tested

nandub
virtualdub
virtualdubmod
and some stupid muxer program that caused more problems than where we are now.

none of them made any differance.

I'm putting two and two together, and forgot, that the same video paired with MP3 plays fine, but the AC3 is what is throwing it off. So now I am looking into timings of the AC3 comparied to the Mp3. What makes the 360 stutter every 5 to 10 minutes with an AC3 that and MP3 will not cause. I am going to focus on that rather than this container stuff. It could be possible that openDML has issues with AC3 tracks, so I am also going to focus on that.

[septurious]

Well the 360 doesn't have a problem with all AC3, ONLY 5.1 surround sound AC3. If there was a way to encode 5.1 surround MP3 files and that worked then there would be nothing stopping me from switching off of AC3. *Sigh* So frustrating! I'm assuming Microsoft never got back to you with how THEY encode 5.1 Surround sound AC3 DIVX files without glitches?

Iskondi

[reddragon72]

QUOTE(septurious @ Mar 24 2008, 12:02 AM)

Well the 360 doesn't have a problem with all AC3, ONLY 5.1 surround sound AC3. If there was a way to encode 5.1 surround MP3 files and that worked then there would be nothing stopping me from switching off of AC3. *Sigh* So frustrating! I'm assuming Microsoft never got back to you with how THEY encode 5.1 Surround sound AC3 DIVX files without glitches?

Iskondi

Sorry about the wait, but a long weekend and lots of family over.

Ok yes MP3 does do suround sound 5.1 channel and has been able to since around 2004 or so, but the codec is very scarce and none existant. Even if you put the MP3 with 5.1 into the movie the 360's codec will not know what to do with it and wont play it. I already thought about that and would love to run a test, but it seems that it is just to hard to find a MP3 surround encoder now, since it never really went over well.

Nope they haven't got back to me and I dought they ever will.

[septurious]

*Sigh* Ok so MP3 5.1 surround sound is a no go. I'm assuming that WMV encodes with 5.1 surround sound use a Microsoft codec that you can't use unless you're using WMV?

So the only way to get it working with 5.1 and no hoops is WMV encodes which of course take crazy amounts of time to encode. Jeeeeez.

I'm not sure what else to look into or test, if you have anything you think would be good to take a look at let me know and I'll poke around with it.

Septurious

[reddragon72]

QUOTE(septurious @ Mar 26 2008, 02:35 PM)

*Sigh* Ok so MP3 5.1 surround sound is a no go. I'm assuming that WMV encodes with 5.1 surround sound use a Microsoft codec that you can't use unless you're using WMV?

So the only way to get it working with 5.1 and no hoops is WMV encodes which of course take crazy amounts of time to encode. Jeeeeez.

I'm not sure what else to look into or test, if you have anything you think would be good to take a look at let me know and I'll poke around with it.

Septurious

well here is what we have. openDML is somehow causeing issues with AC3 but only with 5.1 channels. create and AC3 with 2ch and all is good, also MP3's work and so on. Cut a movie into chunks less than 2gig each with AC3 5.1 works, but combine them and you get the stutter issue. so it all leads to the openDML. I have read all about openCML and there is nothing at all that would stop a AC3track Xvid movie at any size from playing, as we see it works on our PC's. So we are left with the AVI container handler on the 360 that is the issue, it simply cannot handle openDML AVI files properly, and I am sure that there will never be a fix. The work around for us is to chop up our movies, but then we are left with watching a movie and then jumping to another part in the middle of the movie.....

unless MS decides to fix this issue, which I have reported, we will never see proper implamentation of AVI containers on the 360.

[septurious]

Sounds correct to me reddragon72,

I've done the same as you and come to the same conclusions.

1. If you don't want AC3 5.1 Surround Sound it will work with AC3 2 Ch.
2. If you divide you movies so they don't run into the OpenDML container they work fine.

I have a few movies divided into Chunks and they playback fine with AC3 5.1 but as you said it's frustrating to play them back, but more, it's frustrating for me to figure out how many pieces I need! *Sigh* Annnd I have to setup several different AVS scripts to run through em all etc etc, it would be easier to just encode the stupid things to WMV.

Now I know if you stream the file from your PC as an AVI it has the same behavior, but has anyone tried doing the on the fly conversion to WMV while streaming? Or did that process not have 5.1 Surround Sound?

I too would be highly surprised if Microsoft ever fixes this which means the AVI container for HD w/5.1 surround sound is dead :-(( That really sucks.

[bladec]

FINALLY!!!

I found someone (actually more than one someone) who has been having this problem.  I've been struggling with this for several months...all along thinking it was my NAS box streaming solution that was the problem.  

Oh well, guess I'll wrestle with the decisions on how to handle; either convert my existing movie collection to AC3 2ch, split files, or even perhaps abandon the Xbox and move to the PS3.  

Glad to have found this forum and thanks to all for all the research and testing that has gone on....much appreciated.