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[codecxbox]

Now is the time for some company grab the bulls's horn and standarize MPEG4 once and for all. Sweet couple of porn hours in a 30Gb disk,hehe.
Really, its time for a new hardware codec/player...

[jesterrace777]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned one other obvious advantage to HD-DVD. . . REGION FREE.  Finally a popular disc format that isn't locked into regions, so I can purchase HD-DVD titles from anywhere in the world (which BTW a number of Blu-Ray exclusive titles here in the US are released on HD-DVD over in Europe).  While I recognize that for Joe Public that isn't a big deal, for the rest of us who don't mind purchasing rare titles from overseas, it is a pretty big issue.  I believe it was also one of the reasons why a couple of movie studios (ie Paramount) switched exclusively to HD-DVD this year.  Although I hope HD-DVD wins the format war since it is definitely a more practical format, I agree that it is still too close to call on either.  As for the format war comparison between DVD-R versus DVD+R to HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray it is comparing apples and oranges.  The DVD-R/+R was merely for RECORDABLE DISC FORMATS!!!!!!!!!!!!  Both of which would play in pretty much any standard DVD Player in existance.  HD-DVD and Blu-Ray on the other hand require totally different hardware to even play factory pressed discs.  Few people remember the old Divx discs (not to be confused with the popular .avi format).  For a while Divx was thought to take over from the regular DVD format and most DVD Players incorporated them.  Ultimately they failed though due to lack of practicality and now virtually no one remembers the old Divx discs (not to mention the fact that none of them work anymore).  Anyways the point is that you can't compare competing recordable disc formats to two competing formats with different setups required to even play the factory pressed discs.

[ITMASTER]

It's bullshit that HD DVD can beat Blue-ray.. Even don't risk to see that in your dreams ))
BLUE -RAY is winners with closed eyes I don't understant who is the this idiot writing that kind of reviews.

[Chancer]

QUOTE(dvsone @ Nov 13 2007, 02:11 AM)

I definitely accept that not everyone fits in the same demographic. But what percentage of PS3 owners do you really think buy it with the intent to use it more as a Blu-Ray player than a gaming machine? The more gaming entertainment the PS3 gets the less movie entertainment will be purchased by PS3 owners.

Gaming is just much better entertainment. I'm sure that's something we all can agree on.

 You are still making the same assumption.
Not everyone is a gamer. There is whole world full of people to whom Hi Def movie playback is a huge part of their entertainment. The world does not revolve around gaming. we may like it sure but others will wonder what the hell we see in it. It has been stated so often here in these forums that there are no games for the PS3 at the moment, so why would an out and out gamer buy a PS3. Are you now saying that people do buy it for games alone?
If what you were saying was true, then MS need not have bothered with the HD-DVD add on because not many people will buy movies for it because of the games available? That has not proved the case has it?

[erexx]

BRD is the superior format simply because of its storage size.
BRD: 25GB / 50GB
HDDVD: 15GB / 30GB

If the image quality is bad its becuase the studio chose to encode the movie poorly.

Both support:
Video: MPEG-2, H.264 and VC-1
Audio: DD AC3, DTS, PCM and Dolby TrueHD

Image and sound quality are directly affected by the codec and bit rate used and ultimately the amount of storage space available.
MPEG-2 is superior.
A 2 hour film takes up about 25GB of space.
Include PCM Audio and this easily exceeds HD-DVD's dual layer storage limit.

BR discs can now be made in regular DVD factories without any retooling needed.

It all a matter of the cost for the player now.
Which is exactly why HD-DVD players have seen a major price reduction.

They know HD-DVD doesnt stand a chance once BRD players come down in price.

In the long run, the consumer has the most to win out of the BRD format.

[Jase Winter]

It's irrelevant weather or not the PS3 is only owned by gamers (and this is simply just not true) it's an excellent blu-ray player for the money and people are realising that and spending the money on one instead of a stand alone player. I personally am happy for both formats to co-exist as I own both players, it'll mean prices will have to drop for them to compete with each other.

[dvsone]

QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 13 2007, 10:39 AM)

You are still making the same assumption.
Not everyone is a gamer. There is whole world full of people to whom Hi Def movie playback is a huge part of their entertainment. The world does not revolve around gaming. we may like it sure but others will wonder what the hell we see in it. It has been stated so often here in these forums that there are no games for the PS3 at the moment, so why would an out and out gamer buy a PS3. Are you now saying that people do buy it for games alone?
If what you were saying was true, then MS need not have bothered with the HD-DVD add on because not many people will buy movies for it because of the games available? That has not proved the case has it?

Yes it works both ways. The attach rate of movies for people that buy the HD DVD add on will be much lower than the attach rate of movies for standalone HD DVD players. It's mostly gamers buying it. A cheap add-on to their main hobby. Same goes for the PS3. Dunno why you think the majority of PS3 owners bought it to play Blu-Ray movies. It is a fact that the majority of PS3 owners are gamers, bought the PS3 to play/wait for games, and intend to spend most of their money on gaming. The movie enthusiasts occupy a small percentage of the install base.

[Chancer]

QUOTE

It is a fact that the majority of PS3 owners are gamers, bought the PS3 to play/wait for games, and intend to spend most of their money on gaming. The movie enthusiasts occupy a small percentage of the install base.

 As stated by myself and others. It is not fact. Just because you say it doesn't make it fact. You have as much idea about reasons people purchase it as I do.
Does it take so much believing that people looking for a BR player saw/see the price of the PS3 and buy that rather than drop a load more on a standalone.
 You have absolutely no backup to claim your "fact" at all, so just like all the analysts etc you are just assuming.

[dvsone]

QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 13 2007, 04:18 PM)

As stated by myself and others. It is not fact. Just because you say it doesn't make it fact. You have as much idea about reasons people purchase it as I do.
Does it take so much believing that people looking for a BR player saw/see the price of the PS3 and buy that rather than drop a load more on a standalone.
 You have absolutely no backup to claim your "fact" at all, so just like all the analysts etc you are just assuming.

Jeez, if you really think most people buy a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, please explain to me why the Blu-Ray attach rate is so god damn low.

http://arstechnica.c...pabilities.html

[lizardmanny]

No one is taking into account that Blu-ray cannot do real time PIP, and wont be able to until profile 1.1 gets finalized, but here is the kicker - few blu-ray players out there will be upgradeable to play a 1.1 disc, you have to buy a whole new player.. what is that gonna spell for the early adopters of the format, those who did happen to pay $2000 for their player?

[Chancer]

QUOTE(dvsone @ Nov 13 2007, 03:43 PM)

Jeez, if you really think most people buy a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, please explain to me why the Blu-Ray attach rate is so god damn low.

http://arstechnica.c...pabilities.html

Don't post more crap in the form of a link that was discussed on here months ago. The survey that led to that included 6 year old kids for goodness sake and the actual survey totals were a joke. I remember it being a news post in the forums.

QUOTE

The survey, using 6,260 responses across next-generation console owners ages six to 44

Is that the best you can do?
It certainly doesn't prove your point.

Oh if you want to read some more spin and nonsense from so called experts read it from the same source you quote, about attach rates.
http://arstechnica.c...61122-8273.html

QUOTE

No one is taking into account that Blu-ray cannot do real time PIP, and wont be able to until profile 1.1 gets finalized, but here is the kicker - few blu-ray players out there will be upgradeable to play a 1.1 disc, you have to buy a whole new player

Another reason why people may choose the PS3 as a player of BR first. It is upgradeable.

It will not mater to me much as I will have a standalone HD-DVD player by Xmas as well. If the 360 had it in I would buy a new 360.As personally I like the idea of one machine doing both.

[dvsone]

QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 13 2007, 05:25 PM)

Don't post more crap in the form of a link that was discussed on here months ago. The survey that led to that included 6 year old kids for goodness sake and the actual survey totals were a joke. I remember it being a news post in the forums.

Is that the best you can do?
It certainly doesn't prove your point.

Oh if you want to read some more spin and nonsense from so called experts read it from the same source you quote, about attach rates.
http://arstechnica.c...61122-8273.html

Another reason why people may choose the PS3 as a player of BR first. It is upgradeable.

It will not mater to me much as I will have a standalone HD-DVD player by Xmas as well. If the 360 had it in I would buy a new 360.As personally I like the idea of one machine doing both.

Yes of course...high attach rates are bad and Blu-Ray has an attach rate less than 1 (it's actually something like 0.4) with that huge Blu-Ray buying PS3 install base, so that's good right?! Ding ding ding, you win the argument.

[Chancer]

QUOTE

Yes of course...high attach rates are bad and Blu-Ray has an attach rate less than 1, so that's good!

 The link I inserted was to show you what nonsense and spin can be put on statements. If you look you will see that I think the article is also bollocks as well.
Real world figures are impossible almost to get right, different sites and journalists spin everything to make it fit their point of view. You and I are no different to them, just differing opinions. But that is all they are our take on it. Not facts . We certainly can't speak for other peoples preferences.

QUOTE

Ding ding ding, you win the argument.

I wasn't aware it was an argument. I thought it was viewpoints from differing angles. A discussion but with a difference of opinion. There is nothing to win or lose.

[dvsone]

QUOTE(Chancer @ Nov 13 2007, 06:29 PM)

The link I inserted was to show you what nonsense and spin can be put on statements. If you look you will see that I think the article is also bollocks as well.
Real world figures are impossible almost to get right, different sites and journalists spin everything to make it fit their point of view. You and I are no different to them, just differing opinions. But that is all they are our take on it. Not facts . We certainly can't speak for other peoples preferences.

I wasn't aware it was an argument. I thought it was viewpoints from differing angles. A discussion but with a difference of opinion. There is nothing to win or lose.

I think the attach rate paints a perfect picture of what I've said in my original comment.

The 2 articles aren't even closely related. One was a survey, and the other is analysis/opinion. I can agree with some of the points in the high attach rate article, they're not all that far fetched, some are.

And, an argument is a discussion in which disagreement is expressed.

I definitely won't be replying again to this thread, cause it was dead 20 posts ago.

Go nuts Chancer.  

[viperware]

How come no one is mentioning real-estate? For me, I play video games. Most of which come on optical discs. This, meaning I will need a device which reads optical discs to play the games. I watch movies. Those also use optical discs. Why would I want 2 optical disc players in my entertainment center. My point here, is for someone like me, a standalone optical player for just movies is not practical. I already have a tivo, hd cable box, satellite receiver, wii, ps3 and A/V receiver in my entertainment center. I have no room for another optical disc device, especially since I already have one. For me, Sony hit the nail on the head for providing a single optical disc device that does all these functions (except wii games, hmmm....). As far as  HD-DVD titles. If I want it so badly, I can convert it to MP4, which the ps3 will play in full resolution without noticable quality loss, depending on what bitrate you desire for size constraints. Fact of the matter is, the optical format the data comes on is irrelevant because I have a device in my entertainment center that will play any resolution content I want. Not to say a stand alone player isn't practical for a lower skilled consumer, as it is easy and plug n play. I like hi-tech devices and I like to get the most out of them. Getting the most out of a standalone HD / BD player means you put in a disc and it plays. Best part about a ps3 BD player is it is firmware upgradable / future proof. I don't know how many stand alone BD or HD players you can say that about. For my application, the PS3 provides a solution for every aspect of HD entertainment I desire and the fact that I don't have to have 2nd box to play movies sealed the deal. Plus all my current dvd's look fantastic with the PS3 upscaling feature. I like that I can download an HD movie, convert ito MP4 onto an SD card, stick it in the PS3 and watch it. Or any video for that matter. Not all video content I watch is available in optical disc format. In fact most of the content I watch isn't available in that format. Does anyone watch fansubbed anime? To truly enter the next generation, a video playback device should be able to play more formats than just one tye of optical disc. I don't want to physically go get a disc if I don't have to, I'd rather transfer it on a non-volatile format. In conclusion, it would seem the PS3 is the only truly next gen solution to HD entertainment. I have no preference on video game systems, I just made my purchase based on features per dollar, and the PS3 was able to provide that. A regular consumer probably doesn't know the PS3 is capable of playing HD content in non-volatile formats, let alone would they know what that even means. So again, for me, the educated, advanced system user; the PS3 is the right choice. For the plug and play consumer, a standalone player  and loss of valuable entertainment center real estate could be the right choice for them.
-p-