Print

[Morlok8k]

QUOTE(acsutton @ Jan 31 2007, 12:52 PM)

This is an awful statement.  I run my 360 through a vga cable, and it produces crystal clear, jitter free, dvd playback.  Infact it is the only thing I use to play dvd movies any more because of its superiority to my other name brand players.

as with me

Upscaled using VGA, Perfect Picture, i can only watch DVDs only on my 360 - no other player i've ever seen does better.

(i can only play games in hi-def now as well)

[Peter Gibbons]

the dvd plays and looks exactly the same. If your setup sucks it is because of your tv you retards. Why pay so much for a dvd player??? They are 20 bucks at walbaums for Christ sake!

[msr]

i use original xbox, to watch dvds, on xbmc, ultimate media player. have not tried on 360, don't want to test the laser to much, rather leave it for games.

surely anyone who has a 360, has a dvd player anyway, so whats the problem.

[tuxen]

QUOTE(shanoo @ Feb 1 2007, 02:42 AM)

yeah, something's definately wrong here...

when i first got my 360, it output dvds with that bad quality in the test

but after the big update, it was very smooth (no more feathering/artifacts)...
perhaps this is another sony propaganda?

I expirenced this too.. I use VGA output and before the update whenever playing a DVD, my TV got switched to an odd 640x480 mode, not 720x480 like it was supposed todo. This caused the TV to produce horrible output! I got a little upset back then, but then again I had many other means to playback a DVD.

After the DVD-upscaling update, I find the 360 better quality than any of my other DVD players.

[luther349]

ah so it was a unpatched 360 that makes a little more sence.

[lowendfrequency]

After reading this, I popped in my calibration DVD and got right up close to my HDTV to look for this nasty pixelization. It isn't there. I don't know how the hell they got those garbage images, but I'm guessing it has more to do with the 360's ability to pause a DVD, not an actual playback issue.  I will say however, that the black levels SUCK on the 360.  You can actually see the moment when the screen flickers and all the contrast is washed out.  It's enough of a problem to make my original xbox with xbmc be the main DVD player for our house.

[jhoff80]

QUOTE(schex86 @ Feb 1 2007, 12:25 PM)

Extremetech's article is the only thing that's seriously flawed here.

As I've said multiple times here, the only thing that is flawed is this board's reading skills.

THE TEST DISC THAT THEY USE IS DIFFICULT MATERIAL TO PLAY, not standard DVD footage.  Look at the tests that the 360 fails, and most of them are on clips with a weird cadence.  Most DVDs that are authored correctly will have absolutely no issues.  The Meaning of Life DVD has an improper flag on the material, which is a big part of why it looks horrible.  That being said, just because you don't see issues with the DVDs that you own is absolutely no reason to cut Microsoft any slack on this issue.  As the article says, its a software based player, and the software PC players perform much better than this, as does the example $160 Oppo Digital player I linked to earlier.

Stop calling the article flawed, just because you don't understand the issues that they are having.  I know this is an Xbox site, but that doesn't mean you have to blindly defend MS and the 360 when you don't understand the problems.

[Peter Gibbons]

I also investigated the issue, and found that these guys are b.s. artists....They are just people working for denon trying to sell their excessively expensive, crap units.

[Altima NEO]

Ive never bothered with the 360s dvd playback. I always use DVDX2 or XBMC.

[xboxnas]

Does the same problem occur with the hd-dvd player for the 360??

[Nytemunkey]

Seems to be hit or miss here

The quality of that article is horrible as it just seems like an attack of the 360, which in that case makes it loose all cred in my mind.

As for me I havent had much to test with it. When I do watch dvds (instead of HD content which is truley amazing and is probably the reason this sony fanboy had to write this article) the dvds I watch are usually compressed so I cannot see them in their full beauty anyway. But so far I prefer this player over my xbmc xbox and my samsung 5 disc changer.

I'm sorry but if you agree or not that article is crap and should be disregarded.

[schex86]

QUOTE(jhoff80 @ Feb 1 2007, 10:11 AM)

As I've said multiple times here, the only thing that is flawed is this board's reading skills.

THE TEST DISC THAT THEY USE IS DIFFICULT MATERIAL TO PLAY, not standard DVD footage.  Look at the tests that the 360 fails, and most of them are on clips with a weird cadence.  Most DVDs that are authored correctly will have absolutely no issues.  The Meaning of Life DVD has an improper flag on the material, which is a big part of why it looks horrible.  That being said, just because you don't see issues with the DVDs that you own is absolutely no reason to cut Microsoft any slack on this issue.  As the article says, its a software based player, and the software PC players perform much better than this, as does the example $160 Oppo Digital player I linked to earlier.

Stop calling the article flawed, just because you don't understand the issues that they are having.  I know this is an Xbox site, but that doesn't mean you have to blindly defend MS and the 360 when you don't understand the problems.

jhoff, since you seem to be so focused on "reading comprehension" let's take a closer shall we. First of all, pitting the 360 against a $1000 Denon is fairly suspicious. Though many references are made to middle tier DVD players (and even the PS2) "seriously outperforming" the 360, we never see photos of anything but the Denon. Second, though mention is made of possible software updates for the 360, nowhere does the author state that he has actually updated this particular console. Finally, why, didn't he choose to output the image over VGA @ 1080p. Well, is it possible that the 1080p output wasn't enabled until after the fall update.

It's called reading between the lines. Whether or not there was some hidden anti-MS agenda or just the desire to generate an attention getting headline, somebody didn't do their homework. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that after the fall update (and purchasing the VGA cable for DVD upscaling) the image quality was so good that I soon after ditched all my standalone (middle-tier) DVD players in favor of the 360. I have over 500 DVDs, to include several of the ones included in the article, and the problems he highlighted are simply not there.

As I said before, MS has largely addressed most of the DVD playback issues mentioned in the article with the fall update. If the article was updated to compare an updated 360 running at 1080p vs. the $1000 Denon and several other players, then it might actually have some merit. Until then its simply comparing apples to oranges and perhaps having the unfortunate effect of deterring a few uninformed fence-sitters from purchasing a 360 because of the "serious" DVD playback flaws.

To say the 360's DVD playback is "seriously flawed" is an out and out falsehood, and is probably the main reason why, and I'll say it again, the article is seriously flawed.

[jhoff80]

QUOTE(schex86 @ Feb 1 2007, 11:23 PM)

jhoff, since you seem to be so focused on "reading comprehension" let's take a closer shall we. First of all, pitting the 360 against a $1000 Denon is fairly suspicious. Though many references are made to middle tier DVD players (and even the PS2) "seriously outperforming" the 360, we never see photos of anything but the Denon. Second, though mention is made of possible software updates for the 360, nowhere does the author state that he has actually updated this particular console. Finally, why, didn't he choose to output the image over VGA @ 1080p. Well, is it possible that the 1080p output wasn't enabled until after the fall update.

It's called reading between the lines. Whether or not there was some hidden anti-MS agenda or just the desire to generate an attention getting headline, somebody didn't do their homework. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that after the fall update (and purchasing the VGA cable for DVD upscaling) the image quality was so good that I soon after ditched all my standalone (middle-tier) DVD players in favor of the 360. I have over 500 DVDs, to include several of the ones included in the article, and the problems he highlighted are simply not there.

As I said before, MS has largely addressed most of the DVD playback issues mentioned in the article with the fall update. If the article was updated to compare an updated 360 running at 1080p vs. the $1000 Denon and several other players, then it might actually have some merit. Until then its simply comparing apples to oranges and perhaps having the unfortunate effect of deterring a few uninformed fence-sitters from purchasing a 360 because of the "serious" DVD playback flaws.

To say the 360's DVD playback is "seriously flawed" is an out and out falsehood, and is probably the main reason why, and I'll say it again, the article is seriously flawed.

Except, its a completely objective test, that tells you how to score each test.  Besides that, you say that they are comparing it to a $1000 player.  Yes, that is true, but if you read my two posts before this, there is a $160 player from Oppo Digital that gets a 90 on the same benchmarks.

The article also mentions specifically that it is run at 480p.  While yes, with the VGA cable it is capable of upscaling to 1080p, and some of the problems are avoided by doing that, not everyone has a VGA cable, a TV capable of VGA input, or for that matter, a TV capable of 1080p at all.  They even explained their reasoning on this, saying that the majority of consoles are connected using component cables.  While it seems most here have VGA cables, you have to remember that this is an enthusiast site.  Again, just because you don't have issues, doesn't mean that the issues that some will have should be left alone, never to be fixed.  Sure, the process of upscaling by itself fixes most of these issues,  (not because the software is any better in that mode necessarily, but the actual scaling process itself removes the possibility of a lot of these causing any problems) but as I said, just because YOU don't have a problem, doesn't mean its not there.  As the author states, it should be a relatively simple fix if Microsoft devotes a few programmers to it.  

Now, as for the updates, as you can read from the author, "First, we plugged an Xbox 360 (premium SKU) with all software updates applied into a really gorgeous Sharp AQUOS LC-57D90U LCD HDTV via component cables."  

All of the conspiracy theories about it being an unupdated console should go away now, because ExtremeTech is a big enough site to be considered trustworthy.

[schex86]

QUOTE(jhoff80 @ Feb 1 2007, 10:51 PM)

Except, its a completely objective test, that tells you how to score each test.  Besides that, you say that they are comparing it to a $1000 player.  Yes, that is true, but if you read my two posts before this, there is a $160 player from Oppo Digital that gets a 90 on the same benchmarks.

Then why didn't they compare the 360 to a $160 Oppo? Wouldn't that be more objective? Wouldn't that get their point across even more emphatically?

And besides, where does the $1000 Denon fall into your "typical" setup? I've never had the pleasure of being associated with someone willing to plunk down a grand on a "typical" DVD player. If Extremetech was so devoted to the typical consumer, then they probably shouldn't have used this particular piece of equipment to write what could be considered an unbiased, purely objective article.

Good catch on the console update though. But again, it begs the question, why didn't they use the 360's maximum capability esp. after going on so much about how it could be updated? If, as you have already admitted, DVD upscaling addresses most of the issues leading to "serious" playback flaws, why is the VGA simply brushed aside as "non-typical".  C'mon, its $40 bucks. That's hardly a drop in the bucket to the Denon player, and is much more feasible investment than even a $160 Oppo.

DVD upscaling is completely left out of the article, with the statement "it had no effect". Well, if it didn't have any effect, show me how. I understand the tests may not even be applicable to upscaled images, but most people are going to want to upscale if they have an HD display (w/VGA). But, the only recourse the author gives us is to write long carefully worded letters to MS and hope for the best. Hmm, as for me, I'll just spend the $40 bucks.

BTW, lots of HD displays have VGA inputs. They're not as hard to find as you might think.

[jhoff80]

QUOTE(schex86 @ Feb 2 2007, 01:33 PM)

Then why didn't they compare the 360 to a $160 Oppo? Wouldn't that be more objective? Wouldn't that get their point across even more emphatically?

And besides, where does the $1000 Denon fall into your "typical" setup? I've never had the pleasure of being associated with someone willing to plunk down a grand on a "typical" DVD player. If Extremetech was so devoted to the typical consumer, then they probably shouldn't have used this particular piece of equipment to write what could be considered an unbiased, purely objective article.

Good catch on the console update though. But again, it begs the question, why didn't they use the 360's maximum capability esp. after going on so much about how it could be updated? If, as you have already admitted, DVD upscaling addresses most of the issues leading to "serious" playback flaws, why is the VGA simply brushed aside as "non-typical".  C'mon, its $40 bucks. That's hardly a drop in the bucket to the Denon player, and is much more feasible investment than even a $160 Oppo.

DVD upscaling is completely left out of the article, with the statement "it had no effect". Well, if it didn't have any effect, show me how. I understand the tests may not even be applicable to upscaled images, but most people are going to want to upscale if they have an HD display (w/VGA). But, the only recourse the author gives us is to write long carefully worded letters to MS and hope for the best. Hmm, as for me, I'll just spend the $40 bucks.

BTW, lots of HD displays have VGA inputs. They're not as hard to find as you might think.

Although many HD displays do have VGA inputs, there are a ton that don't, and even still some people who have HD displays with only analog inputs need to use that for a PC or something along those lines.  Besides that, there are still a ton of people who use the 360 on an SD display, even though most people here don't.  I realize that the whole point of the 360 was the HD era, but many people won't be buying an HDTV until their current TV needs to be replaced.  At the same time, Microsoft wants to be at the center of everyone's entertainment centers, not only for games but with Media Center Extenders, etc.  Its about building up brand trust to get the user to stick with their products in the future.  By ignoring the users who have issues like this, its much harder to convince a person that Microsoft products should be controlling their living room.

This type of user who shouldn't just be blown off because Microsoft is too lazy to update the DVD player software.  As I've said a million times, just because the errors are not typical doesn't mean they should be ignored.  I mean think about it, if you had a calculator that worked fine for most people, but every now and then some people get the wrong calculations, that'd be fixed right away.  It should be the same way in the player software.