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[dcaway]

backups on live should be insta-ban set all your e fuses and rlod, there is absolutely no reason for backups on live, none. just my opinion though.

[tactical]

I am hoping very expensive , very sharp Lawyers are looking into this from multiple angles.  
I'm thinking MS had a change in Management the last 8 months and the NEW guy is trying to step on the cockroaches (pirates).  The people before him had "more experience" and quietly did bans and took action so as not to WAKE the SLEEPING hornet NEST.  This NEW guy took a STICK and figured he would hit the NEST and get them to stop being Hornets(pirates).  
I guess MS will see if this NEW GUY keeps his job 1 year from NOW.

[Syn201]

QUOTE(tactical @ Nov 21 2009, 07:07 PM)

I am hoping very expensive , very sharp Lawyers are looking into this from multiple angles.  
I'm thinking MS had a change in Management the last 8 months and the NEW guy is trying to step on the cockroaches (pirates).  The people before him had "more experience" and quietly did bans and took action so as not to WAKE the SLEEPING hornet NEST.  This NEW guy took a STICK and figured he would hit the NEST and get them to stop being Hornets(pirates).  
I guess MS will see if this NEW GUY keeps his job 1 year from NOW.

only guy that could afford a lawyer to take this case would be bill gates himself it does say in short in the tou
in short we Microsoft can do whatever in the hell we want to your service and or your console and there aint one dam thing you can do about it
if the hard drive install had come with the 360 when we agreed to the tou then we may have some case but seen as the update came after that nothing can be done
i think it is wrong however that ms says it dosent have to answer for its actions and there is no recourse
what if they make a mistake ban someone with a unmodded 360(again) that person then gets banned for no reason
myself i coldent care less about hard drive installs but there corruption of my profile does annoy me
granted it only take five minutes to fix but still annoying
i have more chance of jessica alba knocking on my door and wanting me to do her anely then anyone would have of winning this case ..

[npolite2]

Banning the system is one thing and if they want to do that so be it. It is another thing to remove functionality that a user paid for and it doesn't matter if it is in a end user license agreement, there are still implications on what is wrong lawfully. Microsoft can say they will cut your fingers off in a EULA if you mod you system but it is still against the law.

Same thing goes for the online ban. If MS bans your account you should have a legal right to request a prorated refund.

Microsoft is going to have a long and costly battle here and may have to pay more out to settle this.

[tactical]

Just the fact that many of us are arguing about this , that is what will happen in a court of LAW.  Why are some of you guys saying we could not win. Do you work for MS. MS gets sued all the time and they win some and they lose some.  MS lost many many times in USA and Europe and the government had taken MS to court.
If you were banned I would think you would LOVE to find out if MS did anything wrong and the court makes them unban you.  If a Judge or Jury say UNBAN them, MS will HAVE TO do it.  Just like you guys are saying if MS says something, you have to do it.  The COURT is higher than MS. OK. Granted we could lose, but it's nothing out of your pocket, guys.  So be grateful some lawyers are looking into this.
One other point, if this goes to trial, the Judge may order MS to unban everybody until the case is settled, and the case could take years to get settled.  Don't say a Judge couldn't do that, they could. People are be deprived of a service they paid for and the PEOPLE want a COURT to decide if the people should be banned or not. The People should be allowed to see the "almightly evidence against them"  and to face their accuser.

[jumbo11]

No offense to anyone here but going online with a modded system is just dumb.

I think people underestimated MS's ability to detect modified systems. I've been around here long to learn all kinds of new scientific terms such as "stealthy backups", "silent mods", etc. That shit always makes me laugh, Hahaha.

Hackers are ALWAYS one step ahead, huh? Yeah... I don't know whether that is true or not.

However, what I know for sure is true, is that all it takes for an average joe to be one step ahead of MS is simply keeping your system offline. Thinking otherwise is just naive...

[mat82284]

The big problem with the arguments in this topic are the locations of everyone. Every country has different laws, and in every country people feel what laws are justifiable and what not. This lawsuit is happening in the USA so anyone outside the USA who got banned with be SOL. If the courts make Microsoft unban, it will only happen in the USA. Then on top of it, all those people who are saying m$ has every right to ban, will be online complaining about how the USA got unbanned but we didn't.

This argument can go on and on and on. Like the song that never ends. We just need to sit back and watch the ride. I hope they file the lawsuit, We need hope that corporations cant start writing there own laws, and punish people by there own rules vs a court punishing people like they way society works.

Either way all this publicity is going to kill microsoft's sales. When it hits the news that a multi-billion dollar corporation is being sued AGAIN. Everyone will be like, o god Microsoft getting sued AGAIN. The people deserve to be heard. If it wasn't for the courts judgment the RROD would be the consumer's fault because you signed there TOS.

Microsoft knows there systems scratch discs, they never fixed that problem. It's plausible for one to think they do this on purpose for more game sales. My system has destroyed DVD movies before, without it ever moving. I've also gone through 1 RROD and 3 new dvd drives that i swapped out.

Shit, a crappy dvd player from walmart has a better optical lens than the xbo360.

Lets just let the companies fight it out. In the end even if they dont win by getting unbanned. They win with bad publicity over the whole case.








http://en.wikipedia....That_Never_Ends

[chorizo1]

QUOTE(tactical @ Nov 21 2009, 01:18 PM)

Just the fact that many of us are arguing about this , that is what will happen in a court of LAW.  Why are some of you guys saying we could not win. Do you work for MS. MS gets sued all the time and they win some and they lose some.  MS lost many many times in USA and Europe and the government had taken MS to court.
If you were banned I would think you would LOVE to find out if MS did anything wrong and the court makes them unban you.  If a Judge or Jury say UNBAN them, MS will HAVE TO do it.  Just like you guys are saying if MS says something, you have to do it.  The COURT is higher than MS. OK. Granted we could lose, but it's nothing out of your pocket, guys.  So be grateful some lawyers are looking into this.
One other point, if this goes to trial, the Judge may order MS to unban everybody until the case is settled, and the case could take years to get settled.  Don't say a Judge couldn't do that, they could. People are be deprived of a service they paid for and the PEOPLE want a COURT to decide if the people should be banned or not. The People should be allowed to see the "almightly evidence against them"  and to face their accuser.

AT WHOLE THREAD, LOL.

To those against them suing = let them (you aren't gonna convince them that they are wrong)

to those for = good luck wit that.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(johnnyrico @ Nov 21 2009, 04:23 PM)

Here we go again.
It's YOUR console but its THEIR service and THEIR added value. The consoles still work after banning but they can no longer access live nor use the HDD install function which was added through Xbox live and was their added value (you don't own the software on the box).
The console is your responsibility and MS does not allow illegally modified equipment to access live.

I didn't mention anything about XBL - you've taken my comment completely out of context.

Read what I said again - if MS want to argue you don't own the console, just the right to use it then they can have all the broken ones back and refunds issue since the unit is defective. The point is this is never going to happen, therefore the console is YOUR property and by modifying it (away from XBL restriction) could be construed as unlawful.

QUOTE(johnnyrico @ Nov 21 2009, 04:23 PM)

Again, the crippling is nonsense, the consoles still work but you can no longer use saved data on an unbanned console if the data has been accessed on the banned console. This is to prevent gamerscore being updated with games you didn't buy.

Cool - thanks for the heads-up! So in other words, I can play originals on a banned console and it'll all work ok?  

You're not getting it at all - by doing what they have, you can't even use it under normal functionality (even without XBL being a factor) therefore why would anyone want to continue purchasing games for it when there's no added benefit? All this is doing is ENCOURAGING people to pirate their games on the 360 and switch to another console for their online games.

[tysonstorm]

QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 21 2009, 07:59 PM)

You're not getting it at all - by doing what they have, you can't even use it under normal functionality

But yes you can. When I bought my 360 in 07 it was the old Dash without any install to HDD. Given I only had a 20GB HDD I could only install 1 at a time anyhow, so this disabling of the install feature is not a great loss, just back to square one with normal functionality, the NXE IMO was just a bonus and thats it.

QUOTE

therefore why would anyone want to continue purchasing games for it when there's no added benefit? All this is doing is ENCOURAGING people to pirate their games on the 360 and switch to another console for their online games.

But that is not necceserily the case, many people I know both in the real world and online are, like myself, going to or already have bought a replacement 360. Sure some of those who got caught with their dicks in the till are crying and saying they're gonna sock it to M$ by getting a PS3 but the majority I know are still sticking with the 360 and are still gonna buy the games. Sure it may not stop pirating, but it will discourage it somewhat given that online play is becoming more and more popular.

[mat82284]

There is only 1 win with this argument. And that's when C4eva releases his new non banable firmware.


Microsoft is just as bad as the new twilight movie. They both get a 4.4 for effort.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1259571/

C4eva gets a 10

[majik655]

I have been reading quietly since the ban hammering started and the lawsuit started.

I Personally agree with the bans.  I also agree that all saved data should be corrupted, so that it MUST be deleted to work again.  Once deleted it should allow any games to work and of course not allow you on live.
There should be no lawsuit for these reasons in  MY OPINION.

BUT what I have always NOT liked is the "flagging" of consoles to then ban them all at once at M$'s leisure.

I understand they may have the right but really who is to say they are not banning when it is in their favor money wise.

I personally believe a lawsuit should make them ban you IMMEDIATELY not wait MONTHS and allow you to sink your boat even more.

By banning everyone at once when THEY want to makes it wide open for people to speculate why, and in my opinion it could point to higher money intake, which I believe would be wrong.

ban people when they break the rules IMMEDIATELY not months later.

[MyDogAteIt]

My theory is that Apple is covertly hacking the MS 360 since MS has been copying Mac OS since Windows 3.1 through Windows 7! I'm old enough to remember the rivalry and now MS is actually mimicking the Apple store down to the wood floors and all. It's really funny watching MS attempt to play the victim when they have made billions copying Apple.

[CzarMike]

I bought a used 360 that was banned by the previous owner, where are my rights?

I now have a console that cannot accept the hard drive that I bought, and I can't get game updates to make them compatible with the steering wheel that I also bought, to play the racing games that, you guessed it, I bought. Basically MS is punishing the world for buying used equipment.

Banning people on Live is one thing, a no brainer, but disabling physical features on someone else's property is worth of a hefty law suit.

Imagine if they are allowed to go through with this; it would set a legal precedent allowing any company to cripple or kill your equipment, simply because you (or any past owner) made a modification. If I modify a legitimate piece of software to run scripts or function with a newer OS that it isn't programmed for, I would risk having my fucking hard drive disabled!

This issue isn't about cheating or pirating, it's about greedy corporations fucking consumers.

[luceri]

I have an old 360 that I put hacked firmware onto in order to play copied disks. My DVD drive continually scratched games when I got it so I made backups to not have to deal with it. My warranty had expired since they hadn't yet extended it to 3 years and I opened up the case so I could play backups since the console kept ruining games that were put into it (voiding a future extension of the warranty to 3 years, so MS wouldn't help me).

Now I'm the ass that let my friends play on a banned console not realizing the hard drive would corrupt all the data on their memory units. One of them doesn't have broadband internet access so it's an issue to recover the profile online and everything is lost since most of his achievements aren't uploaded online. Another friend lost 60 hours worth of Dragon Age game saves as well as his profile because of this.  

I've done nothing illegal, only violated the LIVE ToS and would accept it easily if they wanted to just ban my account or even my console from LIVE, yet they can do this to my console's hard drive and cause these problems? If the console is fine then why do my friends not want to use the damn thing to the point they bring their own 360 over instead of logging in to mine? They're not the damned government and they have no right to be judge jury and executioner to the Xbox I fully own.