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[K1LLERHORNET]

QUOTE(magusdraco @ Nov 21 2009, 01:39 AM)

Yeah.  It's the console that refuses to install or run installed games anymore.
It's also the console whose ID was revoked or screwed up or whatever that makes the profiles and saves show up as corrupted on a different console (something that is fixable last I heard.  But requires a memory card or something too)

http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/xbox-360-tutorials/155990-uncorrupt-profile-banned-xbox-360-a.html

QUOTE(amak1131 @ Nov 21 2009, 02:52 AM)

WRONG! Before a ban, you can plug the drive into any other console and be fine. After a ban, you can't.

WRONG!

The HDD works fine on any non-banned console.

QUOTE(Mr.RedRing @ Nov 21 2009, 03:26 AM)

..and unsurprisingly, they didn't mention anything about crippling HDDs or Media Center.

QUOTE(medievil @ Nov 21 2009, 08:08 AM)

Again the HD is not crippled.. reformat it, stick it on a new arcade and it works just fine... or leave it on the banned system and it still works fine, they removed the HD install feature, but that is not hurting the HD, thats to deter piracy and installing copied games on a modded console

No need to format the HDD.
I am using my HDDHackr 250GB on my new Elite console. Working fine.
I managed to corrupt my Forza profile - it had exclusive cars, 1m credits & over 15hrs of career progress, so i did not want to start all over again. So i had to find a solution.
Using the link i posted above, i was able to uncorrupt/remove the flag on my game save (can be done on gamer profiles).

[Martinchris23]

Some of these comments are classic.

QUOTE

You agreed to those terms of service when you signed up, a judge can't do a frakking thing because you agreed to the terms.

QUOTE

It states in the EULA and TOS they can add and remove features at any time.

etc etc

You need to understand the differences between ToS/EULA and STATUTORY LAW.

Let's say that MS 'suspect' you have a modified console which breaches the ToS and disable the fans in the 360 so it overheats and dies. Are you saying they are perfectly able to do this?

Microsoft are not the law - they are a massive company with a huge legal team. This still does not make them infallable and by no means does it make them right. If they want to deny access to their services, that's fine - they have every right. However, we're talking about corruption of personal data (profile/gamesaves) and removing functionality which was introduced to counter-act a lawsuit on discs being scratched. Even if you did have any originals, you can't use them.

The console is yours - you purchased it and are responsible for it. Don't believe me? Next time it breaks and it's out of warranty, contact MS and tell them to replace it. After all, it's not yours and they've given you permission to use it. However it's broken and you are legally entitled to a replacement.
Same goes for any scratched games (instead of charging £10/$20 for a replacement costing less than a dollar). They don't belong to you and you've permission to use them. You didn't purchase the rights to the disc, just the game. Therefore they should be replacing the discs free of charge.

I've a feeling that they've really gone too far this time - this latest wave of bans has created HUGE media attention, giving people even more doubt in purchasing MS hardware if there's a faintest chance of them crippling your console without any valid reason. Sony are going to clean up.

[ccfman2004]

QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 21 2009, 03:53 PM)

Some of these comments are classic.
etc etc

You need to understand the differences between ToS/EULA and STATUTORY LAW.

Let's say that MS 'suspect' you have a modified console which breaches the ToS and disable the fans in the 360 so it overheats and dies. Are you saying they are perfectly able to do this?

Microsoft are not the law - they are a massive company with a huge legal team. This still does not make them infallable and by no means does it make them right. If they want to deny access to their services, that's fine - they have every right. However, we're talking about corruption of personal data (profile/gamesaves) and removing functionality which was introduced to counter-act a lawsuit on discs being scratched. Even if you did have any originals, you can't use them.

The console is yours - you purchased it and are responsible for it. Don't believe me? Next time it breaks and it's out of warranty, contact MS and tell them to replace it. After all, it's not yours and they've given you permission to use it. However it's broken and you are legally entitled to a replacement.
Same goes for any scratched games (instead of charging £10/$20 for a replacement costing less than a dollar). They don't belong to you and you've permission to use them. You didn't purchase the rights to the disc, just the game. Therefore they should be replacing the discs free of charge.

I've a feeling that they've really gone too far this time - this latest wave of bans has created HUGE media attention, giving people even more doubt in purchasing MS hardware if there's a faintest chance of them crippling your console without any valid reason. Sony are going to clean up.

+1

[nachomans]

Nice move by MS making you think that they can do whatever they want, cause its their hardware...

I think that people really likes to get their real rights up in the as*..

[blackwolf]

QUOTE(Mr.RedRing @ Nov 21 2009, 03:26 AM)

..and unsurprisingly, they didn't mention anything about crippling HDDs or Media Center.

Media center extender still works after a ban... it appears the reports of it being disabled are false

[pimmpinn]

i would like to to know the laws stand, on minors agreeing to the tos
last i checked there's no age limit on buying an xbox or live card.

[johnnyrico]

QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Nov 21 2009, 04:53 PM)

The console is yours - you purchased it and are responsible for it. Don't believe me? Next time it breaks and it's out of warranty, contact MS and tell them to replace it. After all, it's not yours and they've given you permission to use it. However it's broken and you are legally entitled to a replacement.

Here we go again.
It's YOUR console but its THEIR service and THEIR added value. The consoles still work after banning but they can no longer access live nor use the HDD install function which was added through Xbox live and was their added value (you don't own the software on the box).
The console is your responsibility and MS does not allow illegally modified equipment to access live.

QUOTE

I've a feeling that they've really gone too far this time - this latest wave of bans has created HUGE media attention, giving people even more doubt in purchasing MS hardware if there's a faintest chance of them crippling your console without any valid reason. Sony are going to clean up.

Again, the crippling is nonsense, the consoles still work but you can no longer use saved data on an unbanned console if the data has been accessed on the banned console. This is to prevent gamerscore being updated with games you didn't buy.

 

QUOTE

   i would like to to know the laws stand, on minors agreeing to the tos
last i checked there's no age limit on buying an xbox or live card.

That's the parents' responsibility. If a kid intentionally breaks a law out of free will , the parents will usually be held responsible. This is also why child accounts exist and require parental consent for things.

[tactical]

good points.

I'm sure some of them would be good to sue them.

You are right if minors 8 years old joined or 14 years old or 17 years old and checked the TOS , that could be a case.  You can sign up without any identification using 12 month card.

Also, the way MS touted this for a few months is making it a FIGHT type of thing.  No matter how you feel about it , good or bad, their could be a valid lawsuit on muliply fronts.

Do you not think MS legal team could be posting here and other places.  It's called DAMAGE control or  SPINNING the story.

MS went too far and if good legal team can see all bans and all unbans and access to MS personal and ask them very pointed questions about all the "massive information" they have on users and intimating tactics against little kids and moms and dads, MS could lose big time, and SONY comes out on top.

p.s. I'm pretty sure MS employees are writing in this thread, even on some topics in forum rooms , mod asks in answering questions about ban , "are you an MS employee or connected with MS in any way".  

Regular people that got banned would be trying to see if their is way to unban or if this violates their rights in any way and we have some people "siding with MS all down the line" the same way the "MS enforcement team"does.

[trentdadi]

QUOTE(noetikos @ Nov 21 2009, 05:55 AM)

first of all, your a douchebag! there are actually people out there who really do "flash their drives" (modification doesn't signify pirating alone) in order to play back ups of their original games to preserve them. the hdd game install feature is the greatest thing that the 360 has to offer (besides the huger library of games).

i install my game onto the hdd in order to experience better game performance and loading times. in addition, the game hdd install feature will prolong the laser life-span and minimize the amount of heat produced of which the dvd drive puts out. besides, there will be less noise coming from the console when the dvd drive isn't used.

M$ was the company who added the game install feature and not us but we do take advantage of this. so us gamers and "modders" who actually do install our games on the hdd are not pirates as you claim, you ignorant idiot.

btw, get rid of your gay and strange avatar.

The install to HDD was a feature you obtained through xbox LIVE.  Seeing as how you are now probably banned from xbox live, Microsoft probably feels you should not receive any of the past benefits of being on xbox live.  And sorry to burst your bubble, although probably not a lot of the users on this site, most other people do pirate games that have had their drives flashed.  These are the same people that refuse to do anything them selves and just send it off to someone with a check.  

You perhaps think that because you flashed your drive for legit reasons, so has anyone else.  Unfortunately you are sadly mistaken.  You are taking my generalities and turning them into facts and putting false words in my mouth, making you sir, the idiot.  I hope to see you on MW2 someday.... oh wait.... your banned.

[ccfman2004]

Technically the Install to hard drive feature is not LIVE exclusive as you don't even have to signed in to Xbox live to install games plus if you want to play any new game that include the Wave 3 video partition on it, you are forced to install it, whether you want it or not.

[tactical]

trentdadi
don't get upset by some of the people here, those that got banned are trying to see how to get unbanned and if MS did anything that violated any laws in taking the actions they took.
Of course, many people pirated games they did not own and they were banned.
We are looking for people that did nothing wrong and got banned, showing banning could be unfair in certain cases and MS has policy of "we don't care you are banned and that's the end of story and we don't have to tell you why".
You can walk MS line all the way, but this thread is about Law Firm thinking about sueing MS for the way they handled this and I'm interested to see if MS did do anything wrong in the way they did this.

It could be that the save to HARD DRIVE was a settlement that MS agreed too to stop from being sueing for Disk scratching and if so , MS taking that function away could violate that agreement. I don't know but it is angle to investigate.

[k6kicker]

I think we can all agree MS has the right (and should) ban modded consoles from live. However, I personally feel they made a mistake in pushing how far to take the other measures (killing off media center extender, corrupting gamesaves...ect). This was obviously a cashgrab at at the biggest time of the shopping season. They are a big business, all they care about are numbers, and if they can make a move that nets them another million (best case scenario) hardware sales they are going to do it and not look back. Why do you think it is lining up with all these $100 giftcard deals on arcades (the unit most likely to puchased by someone who already had a console with hard drive). I just feel this is blowing up in their face and going to end up helping the PS3 out sales wise in a big way. Also, you don't really want to anger a million (or whatever large number was actually banned, a million just sort of rolls off the tongue) modders. There will be quite a few in there that are quite hardcore and we could be seeing a spike in DOS attacks and other retaliation moves. Quite honestly, MS was still making money off of the modders based on the monthly XBL subscriptions and now a chunk of that is going to be gone. I'm assuming they are taking the cash up front approach and hoping the hardware sales will provide enough revenue to offset this. To me, it was just the wrong move at the wrong time, and by giving the modders such a massive sample size, they totally overplayed their hand on the bans. Now a more definitive view of what is being looked at can surface and future mods might be completely invisible to MS, which may include the *gasp* potential for cheating on live, which hasn't been possible with the current crop of mods but was (over)played by MS as the primary reason for the bans. Anyways, another heavy handed MS failure to add to the list.

[gsharpshooter]

Yea but how about the few who actually got banned for not even modding their consoles burn in hell ms I'm on dat ps3 now and cod on that is ohh so fresh no more worrying about paying for online anymore baby !!

[tactical]

Yeah, it probably is not WISE to PISS OFF 1 million people , especially hackers at that. If MS was worried about cheaters before, MS just poked a stick at a hornets NEST.  What was MS thinking?   Do they really think the SCENE is gonna roll over and DIE?  Really?
Time will tell, but PISSING off 1 million people like this , is not wise and it's only been a few weeks , wait a few months for the hackers to come up with something.  Obviously MS took their time to attack us.  TIT for TAT.

[noodles2k]

QUOTE(chorizo1 @ Nov 21 2009, 01:25 AM)

wow he managed to say all that without laughing hysterically at the lawsuit (that hasn't been filed btw)

The fact that MS is commenting on this means they're not laughing about it. They're worried.

QUOTE(cagmere @ Nov 21 2009, 05:02 AM)

It's not YOUR hardware, you simply own the rights to use it.  It is Microsoft's hardware and it is illegal to modify it in any way as agreed upon with their TOS.

wtf? it belongs to the person who buys it. The software is licenced as IP, but the hardware belongs 100% to the buyer.

Sorry but Microsofts TOS != Law, and it's not illegal to modify it.

QUOTE(zeppy218 @ Nov 21 2009, 02:13 AM)

i honestly think that they have the right to make the thing never turn on again, u broke the ToS

Again the TOS isn't the law, if Microsoft chose to make banned units unusable they'd be commiting criminal damage

QUOTE(LEON007 @ Nov 21 2009, 06:17 AM)

They blow up one of the fuse on last update, Hey isnt it we pay for the fuse when we bought 360?? Isnt it our fuse. MS actually blow up anything they want??

it's not a real fuse as such - it can be unblown up.

QUOTE(kcq71 @ Nov 21 2009, 12:53 PM)

You people expect to sue a multi-billion dollar company and win?

yer, because, no ones ever sued MS before  

QUOTE(johnnyrico @ Nov 21 2009, 11:15 AM)

You agreed to those terms of service when you signed up, a judge can't do a frakking thing because you agreed to the terms.

 

QUOTE(trentdadi @ Nov 21 2009, 04:37 PM)

The install to HDD was a feature you obtained through xbox LIVE.

Not on newer consoles it wasn't. It's perfectly possible to put together a case based around the fact that disabling hard drive installs will significantly shorten the life of an Xbox.