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[iwstid]

QUOTE(fatvince @ Nov 23 2009, 10:23 AM)

Yeah.. that's why they've been sued all over the world, many times over.. because their lawyers are so smart. Yep.

Well actually Microsofts lawyers are very smart. There is no denying that. The problem is that there is no solution for stupidity of people. The people sue Microsoft because Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer comes with Windows so Microsoft is evil. Yet it is OK for Apple to force you to use iTunes with your iPod. Apple OS also comes with Safari and Quicktime. Why is Apple not being sued their asses off?

This has nothing to do with lawyers and how smart they are this has everything to do with Microsoft becoming a Loot piñata for greedy stupid people.

And that is the only reason why these people are looking into sueing Microsoft in the first place. These lawyers don't care about you or your rights. All they see is a big fat loot piñata and they are looking for a stick to whack it. And if they are able to whack it with anything it might drop some candy.

But in no way will this lawsuit ever be a good thing for the consumer. It will only be a good thing for those bloodthirsty hound-dogs that call themselves lawyers.

[ccfman2004]

QUOTE(iwstid @ Nov 23 2009, 10:49 AM)

Well actually Microsofts lawyers are very smart. There is no denying that. The problem is that there is no solution for stupidity of people. The people sue Microsoft because Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer comes with Windows so Microsoft is evil. Yet it is OK for Apple to force you to use iTunes with your iPod. Apple OS also comes with Safari and Quicktime. Why is Apple not being sued their asses off?

This has nothing to do with lawyers and how smart they are this has everything to do with Microsoft becoming a Loot piñata for greedy stupid people.

And that is the only reason why these people are looking into sueing Microsoft in the first place. These lawyers don't care about you or your rights. All they see is a big fat loot piñata and they are looking for a stick to whack it. And if they are able to whack it with anything it might drop some candy.

Safari and Quicktime can be removed easily.  Besides, I love my Mac.

[iwstid]

QUOTE(ccfman2004 @ Nov 23 2009, 10:58 AM)

Safari and Quicktime can be removed easily.  Besides, I love my Mac.

They didn't lose because you can't remove the media player or IE, they lost because they said consumers must be able to choose a web browser before they can operate windows. Otherwise people will not be likely to change since *gasps* IE just works fine and most people are to lazy to look for another browser anyway. Wow really. So how does this then not apply to Apple?? Well because this world is full of retards and logical sense does not apply here. Good to know.

[tactical]

I just want to know if MS did bend the TOS in way that is not legal and if they took away features they shouldn't have, and the lawyers on both sides will argue the case looking for other cases to support their side.
No matter how you see this case, everybody makes mistakes or interrupts things differently and the Judge or Jury decide case based on LAW.
MS can say they are "right" but they could be "wrong" from government standpoint and from consumer standpoint.  The laws 300 years ago have changed and what the king can do has changed, and today laws are still changing and what a company could get away with , can change.  Child work laws, consumer rights, warranties, all these things are less than 100 years old.  So maybe we have more rights owning a 360 than MS believes or you believe.  The courts will decide this case.

[bobbler]

QUOTE(iwstid @ Nov 23 2009, 12:09 PM)

They didn't lose because you can't remove the media player or IE, they lost because they said consumers must be able to choose a web browser before they can operate windows. Otherwise people will not be likely to change since *gasps* IE just works fine and most people are to lazy to look for another browser anyway. Wow really. So how does this then not apply to Apple?? Well because this world is full of retards and logical sense does not apply here. Good to know.

It will apply to Apple at some point in the future, just not when their chance of monopoly of the browser market is hampered by their lack of installed OSX users.
MS have something like 90%+ share of the home computer operating system market (at the time of the EU ruling) that immediately gave them a 90% share of the browser market too and was what was considered anti-competitive. If they (Apple) have less than a 10% share of the entire computer operating system market then they will not be in any position to be anti-competitive will they? Apple also didn't have the audacity to say that the removal of Safari or Itunes will cause the operating system to become unstable like some other particular OS vendor I could mention.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(tactical @ Nov 23 2009, 01:30 PM)

The courts will decide this case.

As much as I would like to believe this, I don't think it'll ever get to court. If this does happen to gather a dangerous amount of momentum, MS will just settle out of court for the consumers involved in the class action.

[nachomans]

mac comes with safari and quicktime, cause it has 2% market share, so nobody cares...

[ccfman2004]

I could care less about xbox live, just give me back the hard drive install feature and don't corrupt my data.

I modified my console to play backups I ripped.  If that gets me banned, OK, I'll take the ban, I don't really use xbox live anyway.  What I won't take is removing non xbox live features.

[azuziel]

QUOTE(MyDogAteIt @ Nov 21 2009, 04:17 PM)

My theory is that Apple is covertly hacking the MS 360 since MS has been copying Mac OS since Windows 3.1 through Windows 7! I'm old enough to remember the rivalry and now MS is actually mimicking the Apple store down to the wood floors and all. It's really funny watching MS attempt to play the victim when they have made billions copying Apple.

Apple sucks dude. Really. The hardware is identical to a pc now, and they're still twice the money. Is OS X really worth all that cash? I think not. In fact, if I want a mac, I"ll run it in a vm on my windows 7 or linux install. Forget OSX, go buy an ipod.

[TheRealPeppers]

There are a few of these people who joined just to post in this thread, are intelligent and yet intentionally leave out facts to make there point seem more valid.  It seem quite possible there people work for MS.

[tactical]

QUOTE(TheRealPeppers @ Nov 23 2009, 08:46 AM)

There are a few of these people who joined just to post in this thread, are intelligent and yet intentionally leave out facts to make there point seem more valid.  It seem quite possible there people work for MS.

Yeah, that could be true, because why would someone who did mod their 360 not want to see if ms did something wrong in their interpretation of laws about what the consumer owns and doesn't own.  And if a WARNING should have been given prior to update , like Wii has.  Also, TOS may over step what they can do, just because MS says they can do it and you think they can do it, doesn't mean that the Courts say they can do it.  So many times, lawyers refer to case law from old cases and show how they do or don't apply to this.  This could be malice on the part of MS.

Also, if people that were caught in this BAN that were legit and didn't do anything wrong would have to come out, MS would be made to show every single time they unbanned someone  to show MS makes mistakes, or innocent people were banned.  
MS having policy of "there is nothing you can do about it if you are banned", could be seen as scaring people from doing something about it.
Crippling features on 360 could be illegal , so courts would have to rule on this.  Sony and MS have lost many times in past on things we all thought they had a "right" to do and found out they didn't.
Also, not having a database with all the consoles banned online could be negilance on the part of MS with people buying second hand 360's or people buying them from store thinking they are new.  There is no way to check online to see if unit is banned.  MS says tough , not our problem and we don't have to do anything about it and we aren't gonna do anything about it.

[tpformbh]

QUOTE(mat82284 @ Nov 23 2009, 04:00 AM)

Microsoft is not allowed to destroy our products, they are not allowed to remove any features that are included with the system out of the box (yes that includes hard drive feature) I just got an arcade and never connected it online and it let me copy a game to the hard drive. In USA court, that's what matters, thats the fact and the TOS wont mean squat in the court.

An arcade doesn't come with a hard drive.

So there's three scenarios here.

1) You haven't actually bought a new console and are just making it up.
2) You have bought a new arcade, and put your old hard drive on.  Now if you know anything about xboxs, you'll know that putting a hard drive that contains newer files will automatically update the older xbox.  Even then, as far as I'm aware, that won't enable hard drive installs.
3) You have bought a new arcade, and a new hard drive.  Now why would you do that, when you've presumably got a hard drive with the banned system.  If you have done this scenario, and not connected it online then the system doesn't have the certificates to enable hard drive installs (the same ones that are revoked by the ban).

So, all in all, you're lying.  Stop whining, you've no one to blame but yourself.

[tactical]

QUOTE(tpformbh @ Nov 23 2009, 10:42 AM)

An arcade doesn't come with a hard drive.

So there's three scenarios here.

1) You haven't actually bought a new console and are just making it up.
2) You have bought a new arcade, and put your old hard drive on.  Now if you know anything about xboxs, you'll know that putting a hard drive that contains newer files will automatically update the older xbox.  Even then, as far as I'm aware, that won't enable hard drive installs.
3) You have bought a new arcade, and a new hard drive.  Now why would you do that, when you've presumably got a hard drive with the banned system.  If you have done this scenario, and not connected it online then the system doesn't have the certificates to enable hard drive installs (the same ones that are revoked by the ban).

So, all in all, you're lying.  Stop whining, you've no one to blame but yourself.

You are a venomous person to write like you do, the guy states he on his arcade CAN copy a game to his hard drive and it was never ONLINE , so if the feature comes store bought with that feature that he likes,  why are you accusing him of all this crap.  Guy why are you writing like you do, why?  Does it make you feel important or superior. Many of us that have modded 360's want to know if MS overstepped the line, that's all.  And people like you just bring such a Negative spirit into the room.  I understand you think you are helping this guy or us, but , it is a strange way to do it.  

[halofreak1990]

QUOTE(tactical @ Nov 23 2009, 09:36 PM)

You are a venomous person to write like you do, the guy states he on his arcade CAN copy a game to his hard drive and it was never ONLINE , so if the feature comes store bought with that feature that he likes,  why are you accusing him of all this crap.  Guy why are you writing like you do, why?  Does it make you feel important or superior. Many of us that have modded 360's want to know if MS overstepped the line, that's all.  And people like you just bring such a Negative spirit into the room.  I understand you think you are helping this guy or us, but , it is a strange way to do it.  

Why put a feature on something if you need an upgrade to use that feature in the first place?
Now, I'm not saying there is no 'Install To Harddisk' feature by default on an Arcade system, since I have a Premium myself, but I do deem it unlikely.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(halofreak1990 @ Nov 23 2009, 09:23 PM)

Now, I'm not saying there is no 'Install To Harddisk' feature by default on an Arcade system, since I have a Premium myself, but I do deem it unlikely.

Your point is moot: All Xbox 360 versions are EXACT (with the exception of NAND sizes). Therefore all 360s have an ability to install to HDD, even if the accessory doesn't ship with the console.