Topic: I Think I Have Just Cracked It Re: Bans (Read 1082 times)

Thracky · « **Reply #195 on:** May 20, 2007, 05:30:00 PM »

QUOTE(slumberpod77 @ May 21 2007, 01:02 AM)

as I have already posted before, my source inside MS tells me they are doing detection based on drive performance using remote diagnostics. They have no way to properly read / detect the firmware of your drive at this point in time. There is no "big brother" style tracking of your system or anything like that, and such theories in that direction are completely wrong.

I have an Elite system with a Hitachi 78k drive which I purchased from my store brand new, factory sealed box. I got the Spring update and was playing online, then installed a hacked firmware, then was able to play online using a backup copy of a game. My first burned copy of C&C 3 worked 100% fine, no problems except my lack of skills causing me to get owned. I am still not banned, but no longer wish to take chances by playing backups while connected to Live. Many people have had the same experiences I have just detailed, which blows to shit any "fingerprint" ideas or anything else in that direction.

Also, your system cannot be unbanned. My MS source tells me they mark the EEPROM just like back in the old Xbox days, and marked systems cannot connect to Live, so you'll have to RTV such systems. If you read the above information it may beg the question "what about false positives?". Indeed, if a system has a defective DVD-ROM drive which is not performing correctly it can cause that system to be banned.

Interesting, so then how are these people with drives that are not performing properly going to have their situations fixed?

slumberpod77 · « **Reply #196 on:** May 20, 2007, 05:34:00 PM »

I don't understand the phrasing of your question. In most cases, burned DL media will read more slowly than factory pressed discs. My Hitachi 78k seems to "like" the Memorex 2.4x DVD+R DL, but I have noticed that the performance varies from game to game. Like C&C 3 and GH2 work just like the originals but I have noticed some slow load times and skippy video playback on Tony Hawk Project 8.

Winchy · « **Reply #197 on:** May 20, 2007, 05:41:00 PM »

What you've said sounds possible to me.
My questions..
if it is about burned media reading slower, then what about those people who have only been using originals?
what about the people who reverted to original firmware and then got banned later anyway?
what if the disc in the xbox was burnt media other than a game?
I'm not trying to put holes in your story.. these are serious Qs haha.

KingProzak · « **Reply #198 on:** May 20, 2007, 05:51:00 PM »

QUOTE(savagepoop @ May 21 2007, 12:48 AM)

I flashed my bro's hitatchi drive chirstmas day before even tryin the console its self or connecting to live.
and now he's banned..... so ur theory cant be right

Not entirely. What was the manufacture date?

As it is, the only people I know now who have been banned updated their firmware AFTER the fall update and used their machines before modding. I think it's a little more than a coincidence they all get booted off live; especially when one of them flashed back to stock BEFORE getting the spring update. So far now I've got 5 people who bought their machines and modded them the first time they were ever powered on.

The idea that they are testing your machine based on drive diagnostics is rubbish since no one can guarantee that a drive is performing at 100% of it's ability. There are alot of factors that can adversely affect those results so banning people on the basis that their drives operate too fast or too slow is pushing it; even for MS. Not to mention my friend who hadn't put a disc in his drive to test before he was banned. MS are already being dragged over the coals for the failure rate of machines anyway, it's highly unlikely that a corporation of that size would risk so much credibitly and money on a test that can so easily be shot down.

I still say the fingerprint theory is very credible; no one has mentioned the fact that after the spring update your xbox 360 takes afew seconds longer to boot. I'm wondering what exactly the machine is doing in that time....if i'm not mistaken, didn't the fall update actually sign you into live a little bit quicker?

Ph33r K0rpV · « **Reply #199 on:** May 20, 2007, 06:05:00 PM »

QUOTE(PotentialXboxOwner @ May 19 2007, 01:54 PM)

That does not disprove the theory.

The only thing that will disprove the theory is someone who is definitely sure that the first thing they did was unpack their xbox and then flash straight away who has been banned.

At the moment, I'm not aware of anyone who has said this. The fact that you haven't been banned and have logged into Live before being flashed doesn't disprove the theory. Although I'm new here (first post), I think it would be wise to keep this thread only to those who have flashed their 360's before going on Live to avoid confusion and save time.

i got banned tonight at 12:30 am ish ...

country - uk
xbox - core
storage - mem card
hitachi 78 - flashed
games - gears and test drive only on xbl

console was flashed soon as it was pulled out of box ...
then it went online to create my profile ..

theres ya proof ...
Was heavily used on xbl since feb 07

the only way i can figure out is M$ can find out by seeing the bin file on the flash is called differant to the origanal bin file that was replaced...(correct me of im wrong)

about 9 of my friends droped out friday night and i was still going till tonight , at that point i was the only one without a hdd .. but you can remove that theroy now ..

or they are reading the disc now which can see it has the stealth patch in place or summot to do with to many of the same security codes are showing up at one time on xbl .. so therefore ban ..
ppl who have genuine games who are getting banned may have there game copied and that copy has spread to lots ie .. torrents etc..

i think we really need to find out how M$ are finding out .. and its summot to do with either the discs or the different bin files that we have repalced on our drives

sleepy420 · « **Reply #200 on:** May 20, 2007, 06:13:00 PM »

I have a HITACHI 59D with 2.4 and i have been banned.
Got the xbox brand new and updated the xbox and flashed before i played any games. Once i did the spring update with the 2.4 it played for a few days before i got hammered.

Had a quick question maybe off topic but if i got out and get a new core system can i still use my old gamercard or would it be safer to make a new one!

I have a HITACHI 59D with 2.4 and i have been banned.
Got the xbox brand new and updated the xbox and flashed before i played any games. Once i did the spring update with the 2.4 it played for a few days before i got hammered.

Had a quick question maybe off topic but if i got out and get a new core system can i still use my old gamercard or would it be safer to make a new one!

Thracky · « **Reply #201 on:** May 20, 2007, 06:23:00 PM »

QUOTE(slumberpod77 @ May 21 2007, 01:10 AM)

I don't understand the phrasing of your question. In most cases, burned DL media will read more slowly than factory pressed discs. My Hitachi 78k seems to "like" the Memorex 2.4x DVD+R DL, but I have noticed that the performance varies from game to game. Like C&C 3 and GH2 work just like the originals but I have noticed some slow load times and skippy video playback on Tony Hawk Project 8.

Sorry I more or less was just wondering how a person will get "unbanned" if they honestly have not modded or anything like that. Not that I'm in that boat but simply curious hehe.

QUOTE(Ph33r K0rpV @ May 21 2007, 01:41 AM)

i got banned tonight at 12:30 am ish ...

...

console was flashed soon as it was pulled out of box ...
then it went online to create my profile ..

theres ya proof ...
Was heavily used on xbl since feb 07

Agreed, you're also not the first person I've seen who has flashed before doing ANYTHING with the xbox and still got banned.

Check out the live ban tracker analysis at http://www.locallans.com/analysis.php

Pretty much debunks the thought of any firmware related banning.

ratis · « **Reply #202 on:** May 20, 2007, 06:28:00 PM »

ok buddy one banned he had a hitachi 78 flashed right out the box
like a month ago just got banned about an hour ago

as for buddy 2 he has a ms25 flashed staight out the box also
hes also updated his firmware to every release when theyve been avail.
hes still isnt banned

UNHOLY_ 316 · « **Reply #203 on:** May 20, 2007, 06:42:00 PM »

Well tested again on live ...still NO ban !!

what9612 · « **Reply #204 on:** May 20, 2007, 08:27:00 PM »

I know 3 ppl with modded console
1 :flashed b4 live, not banned
2: flashed b4 live, banned
3. flashed after live, banned

Pirateguybrush · « **Reply #205 on:** May 20, 2007, 08:44:00 PM »

Would a brand new console, never connected to the net, have either the spring or fall updates already installed?

axiNL · « **Reply #206 on:** May 20, 2007, 09:52:00 PM »

Since all the theories here have been proven wrong. Here's mine

1) Since day 1 the xbox 360 was able to do a 'full' self test.

2) Firmware hack was discovered, developed and published.

3) Microsoft takes notice of this.

4) Microsoft rolls out an update with a new self test for the system.

5) The new test is able to read the firmware on the drive.

6) Drives are being tested. Somehow this information finds it's way to microsoft.***

7) Microsoft rolls out an update including the the ability to flag a system as banned (could have been done in the previous update as well since consoles without the latest update appear to get the banned message as well)

For some reason (we can guess but never be sure) Microsoft bans in waves (with delay).

9) Some people are banned, some are not. Aand that might be for legal or marketing reasons, who knows? But it has nothing to do with your system.

-----

*** The way a drive is tested is important to this theory, because it might explain why unmodded systems are banned. Reading the firmware from the drive, sending that information (as a whole or a hash string) to Microsoft, comparing that information with what is known for that system (depending on s/n) can go wrong in all kinds of ways.
For example: Microsoft knows system with s/n xxxx has drive yyyyy and should provide test results zzzzz. Go figure where it can go wrong: results zzzzz are recieved incorrectly, or drive yyyyy in the system has been replaced, or the factory didn't provide the correct information for system xxxxx, etc, etc. Lot's of reasons why the test is not waterproof and why systems are flagged as banned for the wrong reason(s).

My theory is not waterproof either. I have no idea when the data was collected and when it was send. Also i have no idea in which update what step was taken....

Thracky · « **Reply #207 on:** May 20, 2007, 10:43:00 PM »

QUOTE(Trunjent @ May 21 2007, 05:22 AM)

I think Crackdown (ironically) is responsible for the bans aswell....i have about 30 or so backups which i copied myself from the originals using XBC and crackdown is the only game that didn't pass the stealth check.
So maybe they put a corrupt file or an additional file in so when the original game boots it creates an error log or something simular and bypasses it after that, but with a backup game this wouldn't happen and therefore consoles without this log or whatever would be recognised as a flashed one....and they would know who played the game because of the gamertag....

It's only a theory but would be very easy for them to do....
A lot of posts i've read point towards Crackdown for bans

Anybody who has any feedback on this...I would really like to hear it...

Crackdown has nothing to do with this, there's plenty of people still playing burned copies of it online with halo 3 beta. I think this whole drive performance thing is a much more realistic path to look at. I'm sure the xbox has some sort of diagnostic utility for repairs, and I would imagine ms could remotely activate it. People who are banned have all played with a backup of some sort, OR possibly had a somewhat failing dvd drive. Those who aren't banned may not be playing backups online OR they have used good DVD+R media with a great burner and their discs don't tip anything off. Really this is all just theory at this point though.

QUOTE(axiNL @ May 21 2007, 05:28 AM)

Since all the theories here have been proven wrong. Here's mine

1) Since day 1 the xbox 360 was able to do a 'full' self test.

2) Firmware hack was discovered, developed and published.

3) Microsoft takes notice of this.

4) Microsoft rolls out an update with a new self test for the system.

5) The new test is able to read the firmware on the drive.

6) Drives are being tested. Somehow this information finds it's way to microsoft.***

7) Microsoft rolls out an update including the the ability to flag a system as banned (could have been done in the previous update as well since consoles without the latest update appear to get the banned message as well)

For some reason (we can guess but never be sure) Microsoft bans in waves (with delay).

9) Some people are banned, some are not. Aand that might be for legal or marketing reasons, who knows? But it has nothing to do with your system.

...

My theory is not waterproof either. I have no idea when the data was collected and when it was send. Also i have no idea in which update what step was taken....

That's a *ton* of data for MS to log and keep track of, and it really doesn't explain why non-modders are being banned, and really doesn't deal with a lot of other unknowns. The majority of the bannings seem to have been done, who knows really, but it would seem those who are not currently banned and are still playing away, are going to stay that way for now.

WokaWoka · « **Reply #208 on:** May 21, 2007, 12:12:00 AM »

I have had mine modded but not really sure which firmware was used as a friend did it for me. I do know that I have a ms28 drive, it was done straight out of the box and backup games were used in some cases. I have not connected to XBL for nearly 2 months and am not game to.

I do have a question to put out there to see if anyone can answer: Will M$ release a list of banned consoles so that people who purchase a second hand one can check to see if it is banned or not before they buy the console?

It's a bummer to hear what has been happening but everyone who has a modded box should've had enough common sense to realise the risks of what was done to their Xboxs and if it is banned then unlucky for them and me. If innocent people are caught up in this then that is the real disaster of what M$ has done.

l0tics · « **Reply #209 on:** May 21, 2007, 12:18:00 AM »

I've yet to see a post confirming this by a competent person:

Did anyone flash their drive with stealth firmware BEFORE the fall update, only play stealth patched games, never changed the firmware ever again, and then get banned after the spring update?

I've seen people attempt to disprove this, but they always clearly do something wrong. Anyone who has done exactly what I just said, post.

Author Topic: I Think I Have Just Cracked It Re: Bans (Read 1082 times)