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[AnonymousCoward]

What about mod chips used for playing import games?  Why should I be prevented from playing a game purchased legally on X-Box Live?

Until MS gives back our right as consumers, modders will always have the moral high ground.

[Zander]

Also, what about home-brew? The xbox is capable of doing MUCH more than what MS is allowing to be done with it.

Also, only maybe 4 or 5 ppl on this board are "hackers".

Installing a mod does not make one a "hacker"

Z

[Wriggler]

QUOTE

What about mod chips used for playing import games? Why should I be prevented from playing a game purchased legally on X-Box Live?

Because doing so allows the not-so-legitimate people to do naughty things. That was kind of the point of my post. It's like saying all guns should be free to under 10 yr olds because my 9 year old son enjoys shooting cans in the back yard. Ok it would be great for all the can-shooters out there, but you think there wouldn't be 10 year olds who use the weapons for not-so-legitimate reasons? See my point?

QUOTE

Also, only maybe 4 or 5 ppl on this board are "hackers". Installing a mod does not make one a "hacker"

I don't believe I ever called you a hacker, did I? Neither did I say installing a mod chip made somebody a hacker. And as for the homebrew application of an XBox, well, see the above post.

Future replies: Please note I started my post with an encouraging paragraph on modchips. I don't hate them and wish destruction on anybody who has one. Just anyone who uses a modchip and wishes to fuck with my times on MotoGP :-)

Cheers,

Wrig

[Questioner]

What about the fact that the original dvd rom drive sucks arse? And why can't I use a much faster pc dvd rom to play the backups I have made of the games I have bought?

[Wriggler]

QUOTE

What about the fact that the original dvd rom drive sucks arse? And why can't I use a much faster pc dvd rom to play the backups I have made of the games I have bought?

You can, just not on Live!  

Seriously though, you must see the point I am making. Just for a slight advantage to yourself, you risk ruining the entire existence of XBox Live for the rest of us. Play your backups on your faster dvd drive offline, but don't let the cheating/hacking/bastard people online to ruin it for everyone else.

Anybody see it my way?

Wrig

[deltwalrus]

I see your point, but I totally disagree.  The people that use modchips aren't really interested in "fucking with" anyone's online stats or scores.  That can (and will) probably be done without the aid of a modchip, anyway.  I understand your concern about XBL turning into another debacle like PStar, but modchips aren't now -- and weren't then -- the real source of the problem.

MS is well within its rights to do this to mod chip owners on Live.  Does it suck?  Sure it does.  I paid my $50 like everyone else.  Now I can't play online, because I have a mod chip and a Divx player in my XBox.  I won't whine and scream and raise Harry Carey over it, since I know I wasn't "supposed to" mod the bitch in the first place.  But I can certainly empathize more with other folks like me than with your opinion, valid though it may be.

My two cents.

--The Walrus

[mzenone]

QUOTE (AnonymousCoward @ Nov 21 2002, 12:37 PM)

Until MS gives back our right as consumers, modders will always have the moral high ground.

                                    MS giving back your "right as a consumer".....you have every right in the world- and so do they, and Modders WILL never have "moral high ground".......thats how modding begins, it doesnt begin with ethics and morals- it begins with curiosity and know-how....

now as far as MS is concerned- im completley behind them, ive had to buy a second box, but I dont really mind- plain and simple, mod chips are just not fair to the "average consumer"- im not saying anyone IS going to cheat with a mod, its just that, they (ms) is protecting thier investment- and believe it or not YOURS>...........

[opjose]

No, you are loosing sight of recent history:

It would have been a simple matter for M-icrosoft to "protect their investment" without resorting to these rather draconian methods.

Indeed it's already hurting them and this will only increase over time, as bourne out by everyone with unmodded (some could be lying though) xboxes on the XBLive forums.

No, this is simply a second volley at mod chips designed to circumvent bad press and lawsuits, with their EULA ace in the hole in case anyone objects.

Hopefully people WILL screw up their security attempts and force them to back down to something far more reasonable.

It HAS happened in the past when companies complained of the vast problems introduced by their crazy activation scheme for WindowsXP.

Likewise the same thing must happen with the Xbox or MS will succeed in locking up the consoles in a rather unreasonable and unfair manner.

The desire to drop local lan support alone is a big case in point.

M-icrosoft -NEVER- protects the consumer's interest. Companies only do so when there is a monetary incentive to do so. Such is the nature of the beast.

If they were intent on doing some such thing, while retaining their own security interests in tact, many, many, many simple secondary measures were available to them that would satisfy both camps.

Had they done something like this, we would all have user created programs running on unmodded Xboxes, with a DES type chip to handle copy protection in games.

M-icrosoft PURPOSELY avoided this simply because of the bottom line and FEAR!

Fear that DELL, GATEWAY, COMPAQ/HP and others would do something drastic if their Xbox was percieved to be a type of PC, in direct competition.

[AnonymousCoward]

QUOTE (Wriggler @ Nov 21 2002, 09:54 AM)

Because doing so allows the not-so-legitimate people to do naughty things. That was kind of the point of my post. It's like saying all guns should be free to under 10 yr olds because my 9 year old son enjoys shooting cans in the back yard. Ok it would be great for all the can-shooters out there, but you think there wouldn't be 10 year olds who use the weapons for not-so-legitimate reasons? See my point?

                                    By this logic, nobody should be able to own or operate any device that could be use to hurt someone else..  yes, that would include owning a car, knife, fork, pen, etc. etc.

Almost everything can be used in a malicious manner.

[M@verick]

I agree that cheating Live should not happen and that keeping modchips from being enabled on Live is a good measure to prevent this.  But I think its Nazi-like to ban anyone who has a modchip in their system.  They should simply be locked out until they disable the chip with a switch.  Nobody should be banned for life because their box was modded.   It should just print an error "please disable/remove hardware modifications" and not let you connect.  Once you disable the chip, it should work fine.  I don't see why they can't adopt a good use model like that.

The bottom line is, they want to discourage piracy by using scare tactics.  They really could give two shits about cheaters.  If cheating was all they worried about they wouldn't permanently ban anyone who's remotely capable of cheating with a chip.  Thats like arresting anyone who owns a gun for armed robbery.

[mzenone]

QUOTE (opjose @ Nov 21 2002, 03:08 PM)

No, you are loosing sight of recent history: It would have been a simple matter for M-icrosoft to "protect their investment" without resorting to these rather draconian methods. Indeed it's already hurting them and this will only increase over time, as bourne out by everyone with unmodded (some could be lying though) xboxes on the XBLive forums. No, this is simply a second volley at mod chips designed to circumvent bad press and lawsuits, with their EULA ace in the hole in case anyone objects. Hopefully people WILL screw up their security attempts and force them to back down to something far more reasonable. It HAS happened in the past when companies complained of the vast problems introduced by their crazy activation scheme for WindowsXP. Likewise the same thing must happen with the Xbox or MS will succeed in locking up the consoles in a rather unreasonable and unfair manner. The desire to drop local lan support alone is a big case in point. M-icrosoft -NEVER- protects the consumer's interest. Companies only do so when there is a monetary incentive to do so. Such is the nature of the beast. If they were intent on doing some such thing, while retaining their own security interests in tact, many, many, many simple secondary measures were available to them that would satisfy both camps. Had they done something like this, we would all have user created programs running on unmodded Xboxes, with a DES type chip to handle copy protection in games. M-icrosoft PURPOSELY avoided this simply because of the bottom line and FEAR! Fear that DELL, GATEWAY, COMPAQ/HP and others would do something drastic if their Xbox was percieved to be a type of PC, in direct competition.

                                    No im not "loosing" or losing sight of anything....bottom fucking line, your banned by modded box....deal with it.....I know your intelligent and all....but, MS is DOING what they feel is right........BOTTOM FUCKING LINE...why do you contest everything that everyone ever says......
when they hire you , then you can make your rules......k

[Zander]

Agreed.

Some people are natually inquisitive and want to learn and know what is happening.

Some people are pirates and could care less as long as they don't have to pay for something.

Some people follow the party line and like being fucked in the ass too I guess.

Z

[mzenone]

QUOTE (AnonymousCoward @ Nov 21 2002, 03:50 PM)

Hahaha. MS is not doing what they feel is right.  MS is doing what they think will bring in the most profit. It never hurted anyone to stop being a sheep and think for themselves.  Just because MS chose to do what they did, it does not make what they are doing "good" or "right".

                                    Hahaha, your a fucking idiot- MS IS DOING WHAT THEY FEEL IS RIGHT....profit is RIGHT, jeez.....
......and who are you to judge MS for whats right?
im not challenging thinking for yourself, do it- and maybe you can come up with a real rebuttle- ill be back in a half hour......

[ArMaGeDdOn]

fuck you.  they can do a crc check on the files on the cd or hard drive as the case may be to make sure no trainers or edited games are run.

you are obviously a fucking PRICK!  DIE!

there are MANY other methods to prevent cheating.  MANY MANY other ways.  they're just using this excuse to cover up that they're blocking pirates as well.

btw, READ THE THREAD I RECENTLY POSTED!!!!

http://xbox-scene.fx...ba0e0a3e4e94a07

[opjose]

QUOTE (mzenone @ Nov 21 2002, 03:45 PM)

No im not "loosing" or losing sight of anything....bottom fucking line, your banned by modded box....deal with it.....I know your intelligent and all....but, MS is DOING what they feel is right........BOTTOM FUCKING LINE...why do you contest everything that everyone ever says...... when they hire you , then you can make your rules......k

                                    You made an observation and I shot holes all thru it from a logical stand point, just as a counterpoint to your post.

I was not being "rude", etc. rather presenting a valid set of arguements to your ideas.

You don't like it and can't seem to dispute it, so instead you resort to nothing more than sophmoric banalities.

Boy are you insecure. You take a critizism to an assertion as a personal assault.

This is juvenile. Exactly how old are you?

Even a person in their later teens has far more maturity.