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[shanafan]

They refer to us as people who would cheat on Xbox Live. Yes, we may "cheat" them by downloading games, but does that mean we will cheat on Xbox Live? I don't like being labeled as a cheater just because I have a bigger HD in my Xbox for example. If I was able to sign on to Xbox Live, I would never cheat. We may have better means of downloading programs that could enable us to cheat, but I would never touch them.

[mzenone]

I think the reason they may have termed us "(cheaters)" is to translate to the general public "(average user ")  . . . . if they just say we are modders, no one cares…… ( "average players" ) they say cheaters, so that they will be up in arms to defend the live! service, Not many people care about modders---- because modification is a sighn of Ingenuity, and intelligence- where as is cheaters" and cheating is a sighn of deviance-

sorry for the long winded response

[bearauto]

Sticks and stones...

[ForNeverEnding]

I would agree that it's unfortunate that MS assumes that people with mod chips would build programs to allow cheating on their network...but, unfortunately if mod chips were able to make their way onto xbl there could be some problems.  With a legal xbox dev kit in development and exe -> xbe tools just around the corner there is no telling what people will be able to create shortly.  I being a counter strike player, and the admin of my own server, i know how annoying it is to have to deal with cheaters that manage to get through the HLGaurd.  I'm just saying....that IF people figure out a way to cheat on xbl...it would really ruin the experience of all users, modded and unmodded boxes alike.

[RaiderRed]

QUOTE (shanafan @ Nov 22 2002, 06:04 PM)

They refer to us as people who would cheat on Xbox Live. Yes, we may "cheat" them by downloading games, but does that mean we will cheat on Xbox Live? I don't like being labeled as a cheater just because I have a bigger HD in my Xbox for example. If I was able to sign on to Xbox Live, I would never cheat. We may have better means of downloading programs that could enable us to cheat, but I would never touch them.

                                    Unfortunately MS can call it 'cheating' because of the downloadable content, and other things that *could* happen from a modified system.

If you are able to download additional levels, access hidden areas, or use additional weapons that wouldn't be available to you unless you beat certain parts of a game,  but you got those things just from downloading a version of the game that had been beaten, or modified in some way,  then you would be cheating.

That's why MS is so adamant that mods can't be used,  because it is possible that a modded system could be using a copy of the game that was modded so as to ignore safeguards, spoof checksums, or in other ways hide the mods, but which could have god mode enabled, or otherwise provide an unfair advantage to the person with the mod.

It's not a clear black and white issue.

If you could use a modded system only to play a 100% legal copy of a game, then it would make sense they can't call you a cheater.

But, the fact is that you could get a copy of a game, modify the copy, enable features that wouldn't normally be on, and then be cheating against everyone else.


Not that I like what MS is doing, or how they have said it,  but they have a point in saying what they have.

[Ph34R]

QUOTE (RaiderRed @ Nov 22 2002, 07:27 PM)

QUOTE (shanafan @ Nov 22 2002, 06:04 PM) They refer to us as people who would cheat on Xbox Live. Yes, we may "cheat" them by downloading games, but does that mean we will cheat on Xbox Live? I don't like being labeled as a cheater just because I have a bigger HD in my Xbox for example. If I was able to sign on to Xbox Live, I would never cheat. We may have better means of downloading programs that could enable us to cheat, but I would never touch them. Unfortunately MS can call it 'cheating' because of the downloadable content, and other things that *could* happen from a modified system. If you are able to download additional levels, access hidden areas, or use additional weapons that wouldn't be available to you unless you beat certain parts of a game,  but you got those things just from downloading a version of the game that had been beaten, or modified in some way,  then you would be cheating. That's why MS is so adamant that mods can't be used,  because it is possible that a modded system could be using a copy of the game that was modded so as to ignore safeguards, spoof checksums, or in other ways hide the mods, but which could have god mode enabled, or otherwise provide an unfair advantage to the person with the mod. It's not a clear black and white issue. If you could use a modded system only to play a 100% legal copy of a game, then it would make sense they can't call you a cheater. But, the fact is that you could get a copy of a game, modify the copy, enable features that wouldn't normally be on, and then be cheating against everyone else. Not that I like what MS is doing, or how they have said it,  but they have a point in saying what they have.

I kinda have to disagree here with who I don't know=)

Look if you put it in the game but then have to finish a level to get the extra feature in the game I say it is NOT cheating if you download a saved game that has that feature enabled. If its in the game who cares how you got there eventually you will get there.

As for on-line cheating with hacks and such I thought MS was going to have servers for the games. So if all info is saved server side really makes it hard to cheat. So really all the people bitching so bitch @ MS not Modders.
I personally feel that with modders on the hunt, it just make game producers and MS bring out the big guns. I mean if no one is challenged on either side we will have shitty games and systems.

Two cars speeding one gets pulled over the other one doesn't. Life ain't fair, so why shouldn't video games emulate life? I mean its JUST a game.

I do not think it ruins the gaming experience I think it adds to it. Because in life you never what the fuck is going to happen. So play and have a good time.

[zombie4rave]

I think the whole cheating thing has been blown out of proportion.  I'm sure it is a concern for them but it also makes a good excuse to implement mod checking.  They hate the fact that their 'security' (haha) on the xbox has been cracked.  This is their way of trying to get back at us with 'no cheating' as a front to make it seem reasonable. That's my opinion anyway.

[Sprak]

QUOTE (zombie4rave @ Nov 22 2002, 08:05 PM)

I think the whole cheating thing has been blown out of proportion.  I'm sure it is a concern for them but it also makes a good excuse to implement mod checking.  They hate the fact that their 'security' (haha) on the xbox has been cracked.  This is their way of trying to get back at us with 'no cheating' as a front to make it seem reasonable. That's my opinion anyway.

Let me disagree. As soon as people start to cheat on Live the experience is practically ruined. Both MS and - most importantly - the players will lose something very valuable.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have true cheaters (as in people using modified software to give them unfair advantages) online in time for the launch in Europe in march. Americans, enjoy it while it lasts.

It's good to see a discussion on this subject, though.

[Fuzzy]

well when i think of cheating i dont think of for example downloading a saved game because you cant beat  a level. I believe they are afraid of people who for example give themselves unlimited life in unreal or people who use one hit kill cheats in mech assault. Thats what really destroys the game. Besides, cheating isnt fun, its gay. Cheaters suck, why buy a game if your gonna cheat through it. I dunno what ms was smoking when they said we were cheaters

[Fuzzy]

well yes, they are using cheating to represent modchip usage therefore to make us sound worse. As was previously said, people dont think bad when they thing modder but when they think cheater, then theres something. By the way Gackt why do you always type like that.

[opjose]

QUOTE (Sprak @ Nov 22 2002, 10:21 PM)

QUOTE (zombie4rave @ Nov 22 2002, 08:05 PM) I think the whole cheating thing has been blown out of proportion.  I'm sure it is a concern for them but it also makes a good excuse to implement mod checking.  They hate the fact that their 'security' (haha) on the xbox has been cracked.  This is their way of trying to get back at us with 'no cheating' as a front to make it seem reasonable. That's my opinion anyway. Let me disagree. As soon as people start to cheat on Live the experience is practically ruined. Both MS and - most importantly - the players will lose something very valuable. I wouldn't be surprised if we have true cheaters (as in people using modified software to give them unfair advantages) online in time for the launch in Europe in march. Americans, enjoy it while it lasts. It's good to see a discussion on this subject, though.

                                    I have to agree with zombie4rave

They already have code available that would detect a mod chip and shut you out of an XBLive session.

This is all the M-icrosoft needs to do. They could even download updated code with each connection attempt to defeat code hackers.

Instead they ELIMINATED your Xbox from online play FOREVER (until we are thru, so they think... heh... ).

In addtion they charged the Beta Testers money to act as their guinie(sp?) pigs, then surepititiously banned them WITHOUT any WARNING!

A bunch of really nice guys.

"Give us your 50.00 so we can play with your mod chips then boot you out of the system when we go live."

The mod chip detection while online would have worked well for them.

No more was really needed.

[shanafan]

QUOTE

In addtion they charged the Beta Testers money to act as their guinie(sp?) pigs, then surepititiously banned them WITHOUT any WARNING!

Wow, my friend said the exact same thing. I was a beta tester, played Live from September to November 11. Then, kaboom. XBox Live not found.

You can say that I pretty much gave them 50 bucks for screwing me over, but I got a second Xbox which I will use for Live.

OH WELL

[shanafan]

When I first agreed to the Xbox Live service agreement back in September, I believe there was no mention of usage of a modified Xbox for Live. BUT, once I agree to the terms, MS has the right to change the agreement with me still unknowingly agreed to it.

[benji]

i've sold my modded box now and good riddance. i can now play may xbl without no concerns or worries.

what does concern me now though are the ppl changing their serial numbers etc so they can get their boxes back on live, come on guys give it a rest now!!

this will lead to MS banning accounts, which means all of us then wont be playing at xbl at all.

do yourselves a favour, get a new box and enjoy the live service, i know i am.

[aviationwiz]

QUOTE (mzenone @ Nov 22 2002, 06:52 PM)

I think the reason they may have termed us "(cheaters)" is to translate to the general public "(average user ")  . . . . if they just say we are modders, no one cares ( "average players" ) they say cheaters, so that they will be up in arms to defend the live! service, Not many people care about modders---- because modification is a sighn of Ingenuity, and intelligence- where as is cheaters" and cheating is a sighn of deviance- sorry for the long winded response

                                    I entirely agree with you.

I would never cheat on Xbox Live or any other Online service. It ruins the experience. We WILL find a way around this minor obstacle.