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[seedybrick]

i've seen all the jukes videos and he makes it look so easy!

is it all just timing??

and what IS that timing per se???

[gcskate27]

if youre on live (sys link as well?) you must be host...

throw a frag at the ground, a second later jump (crouchjump for added height)... for stickies jump after 2 seconds... timing isnt super exact but youll get the idea hopefully...

[seedybrick]

must be HOST?!?!?!

never heard anything like that - how would that change things?

and how would you know on LIVE that you were hosting a given game?

[gcskate27]

yeah you have to be host, and one of the ways to tell is if you can grenade jump  

failing that, press right on the d-pad and ask someone on your team if your icon turns blue...

[esc1]

You have to be host on syslink too.  

[chittnp]

its a joke..you dont need to be host

[esc1]

Yes you do.

[Foe-hammer]

On live, yes, but not on sys-link (tunneling soft doesn't count).

[A_Guy]

You have to be host on sys link and live for it to work...otherwise it's like a regular jump.

[esc1]

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Apr 5 2005, 05:09 PM)

On live, yes, but not on sys-link (tunneling soft doesn't count).

Yes huh.  

And why would tunneling be any different?  Its just a big syslink system after all.  Doesn't have jack squat to do with the gameplay.

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(esc1 @ Apr 6 2005, 02:59 AM)

Yes huh. 

And why would tunneling be any different?  Its just a big syslink system after all.  Doesn't have jack squat to do with the gameplay.

Lag has nothing to do with gameplay??  The hell it does.  I don't know about you, but i play a lot better with less lag.     Lag is what you get when you play across the net, be it live or tunneling soft, and what you don't have when you're playing LAN.

Do you even know how tunneling software works?  Do you think playing games across the net is the same as running an extra long cat5 cable to the other xbox's your playing on xbc/xlink?  While it uses the ingame set up for sys-link, a hell of a lot less data is being transfered over the internet compated to regular sys-link (LAN).  In LAN games, a lot more data is being tranfered to and from each xbox; using the full 100mb that a switch or router can handle.  With high speed internet the code has to be streamed, because the most you're going to be able to transfer is around 1meg, and that's with a T1, while most of use are luck to have 256k (we are talking upstream here, boys).  That is why you get lag (a delay in the data being tranfered to and from xbox's).  This is what causes you not to be able to gernade jump.  The timing gets all screwed up.  In LAN play there is next to no lag at all.  I'm almost 100% positive i've done it before during a LAN party, and i was not hosting.

This post has been edited by Foe-hammer: Apr 6 2005, 12:34 PM

[esc1]

It doesn't affect the physics of the game.  You have to be host at any time to grenade jump. I am perfectly clear on what lag is, and it has nothing to do with the ability to grendade jump or not.

[d0wnlab]

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Apr 6 2005, 11:21 AM)

Lag is what you get when you play across the net, be it live or tunneling soft, and what you don't have when you're playing LAN.

wrong.  you have lag when you're on a LAN, just normally less of it.  Not always though.  When I transfer a 600 meg movie over our LAN my roommates definitely experience lag.

QUOTE

Do you even know how tunneling software works?

Yes.  Myself and a roommate have written our own (as yet unreleased) tunnelling app for linux.

QUOTE

  Do you think playing games across the net is the same as running an extra long cat5 cable to the other xbox's your playing on xbc/xlink? 

  From the xbox's point of view, and basically.. yes.  Your computers are just taking each xbox game packet, wrapping it in another tcp/ip (or udp, depending on implementation) packet destined for the other game client, which gets unwrapped at the other end and sent to the xbox.

QUOTE

While it uses the ingame set up for sys-link, a hell of a lot less data is being transfered over the internet compated to regular sys-link (LAN).  In LAN games, a lot more data is being tranfered to and from each xbox; using the full 100mb that a switch or router can handle.

dead wrong.  You can't leave out any packets in the stream because the other xbox will be missing that data.  Period.  The xboxes aren't using a full 100mb/s, they don't need to.

QUOTE

That is why you get lag (a delay in the data being tranfered to and from xbox's). 

Well, yeah.  The message is going through a thinner tube, farther.  So it's slower.

QUOTE

This is what causes you not to be able to gernade jump.  The timing gets all screwed up.  In LAN play there is next to no lag at all.  I'm almost 100% positive i've done it before during a LAN party, and i was not hosting.

Try this again at a lan party.. cuz you can't unless you're host.  Precisely the same as when you're in a tunnelling game.

This post has been edited by d0wnlab: Apr 6 2005, 06:52 PM

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(d0wnlab @ Apr 6 2005, 05:50 PM)

Well, yeah.  The message is going through a thinner tube, farther.  So it's slower.

This is my whole point, and the reason for the delayed gernade jump.  When playing via LAN you have next to no delay.

For example, there was an extreme advantage to hosting (had to lead much further with the pistol, and timing was off during close range combat) on halo 1 when playing over tunneling soft, compared to hosting on LAN, where the advantage was small.

But fair enough, i don't have another xbox to test sys-link right now.  When i do i'll give it a test.  But until then, i won't beleive it tell i double check it, because it doesn't make any damn sense why it would not work on LAN.

This post has been edited by Foe-hammer: Apr 7 2005, 10:25 AM

[sp3cialk]

Here's my thoughts on it...

The reason you have lag more often when playing over the internet by either tunneling or live is because of the limitations of bandwidth up to the internet.... when playing on a LAN you are normally always running at 100Mbps unlike the internet where you are prolly getting choked down to 10Mbps.. what is this saying? Well..

With a 10Mbps data rate, each frame takes 67.2 nanoseconds to be transmitted--57.6 nanoseconds to transmit the frame itself and a gap of 9.6 nanoseconds between two frames.  This translates into a maximum of 14880 frames being transmitted per second (i.e., 67.2 nanoseconds x 14880 = 1 second)

At 100 Mbps data rate, the frame format is unchanged, but the gap between the two frames is reduced to 0.96 nanoseconds--one-tenth of what it is at 10 Mbps.  This means that frames can be sent ten times as often--equaling 148800 frames per second.