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[gcskate27]

"i dont wanna spend the time to get used to the controller... im sick of being killed all the time, if this was pc id be winning... the mouse and keyboard is much more natural*"

thats what i translate "crappy controllers" to in my head whenever its mentioned in this thread...

*ie easier to use, ie requiring less skill... and yes i realise that there is skill involved with a m+kb, im not saying there isnt... its just like driving a car... its easier to drive an automatic, but it takes less skill than a standard car...

[Crypty]

EDIT: I have to point out a big problem though. Some of you may have noticed that the thumbstick control is different from mouse control in games. When you push the right stick to the right in halo, you spin right. Push it more, you spin faster. Let go of it, and you dont spin at all.
Now what you are used to with a mouse in FPS games is you move the mouse to where you want to aim, as if your reticle was a cursor. You can let go and it will stay there.

This makes it nearly impossible to use in halo. You would have to move it a little to look, then move it back to EXACTLY the mid point to stop looking. How are you going to find that mid point where your look stays where it is? Mice dont snap back to the mid point like a joy.

Now thats the way I see it, but if they managed so somehow make a mouse work like on PC FPS games I would be very impressed/ non-believing.

[Neeero]

This is pretty funny.  I love the "a kb + mouse is easier to use, therefore it takes less skill arguement."  I think walking with 1 leg is harder to do, therefore it must take more skill, so you should try chopping off one of your legs.  Shit, you might as well play Halo with a DDR pad, that takes way more sk1llz.

[criofreeze]

I finally found a place in the US which is taking pre-orders for these things. Liek the guy who started the thread, i wondered if this was for real...Still unsure about how well the thing will work. Has anyone heard aything about how compatable it is with new games coming out?

here is the US place I found

Cliff Racer's Video Game Accessories

Tyson

[OR-G]

QUOTE (Crypty @ Oct 4 2004, 03:44 PM)

EDIT: I have to point out a big problem though. Some of you may have noticed that the thumbstick control is different from mouse control in games. When you push the right stick to the right in halo, you spin right. Push it more, you spin faster. Let go of it, and you dont spin at all. Now what you are used to with a mouse in FPS games is you move the mouse to where you want to aim, as if your reticle was a cursor. You can let go and it will stay there. This makes it nearly impossible to use in halo. You would have to move it a little to look, then move it back to EXACTLY the mid point to stop looking. How are you going to find that mid point where your look stays where it is? Mice dont snap back to the mid point like a joy.

As soon as the mouse stops moving it is instantly at midpoint, because it is 0x 0y. I think they'll implement an average of movement so that when u move the mouse quick it speeds up to max or if you move it slow its like tapping the joystick over a little(if not, then oh well, the mouse can sense the very minute movements). But who knows, i've preordered mine on oct 1st with 2-5 day shipping, so I'll let u guys know how it goes

[toxical]

QUOTE (criofreeze @ Oct 4 2004, 05:49 PM)

I finally found a place in the US which is taking pre-orders for these things. Liek the guy who started the thread, i wondered if this was for real...Still unsure about how well the thing will work. Has anyone heard aything about how compatable it is with new games coming out? here is the US place I found Cliff Racer's Video Game Accessories Tyson

it will surely work with all the new games cause the box still thinks its a normal controller and you can customize very button etc...
so there should be absolutly no problem with new games

[gcskate27]

QUOTE (toxical @ Oct 4 2004, 04:27 AM)

thats bullshit! skill is the same... people will learn playing with a controller just like they did with mouse and keyboard, its not that you are a perfect fps player when you just plug in a mouse and keyboard... i learnt that when everybody was still playing fps with keyboard only without looking up and down etc...that was back in 1996 when i played duke3d... ppl just dont want to learn everything from scratch just to have a chance online,pc player dont stand a chance against experienced xboxers online, thats a fact...still they might own them up if both were playing with a keyboard and mouse... again you have to learn that too, like playing with a controller...its not that you plug it in and are perfect at every game... its not easier with a controller, just totally different so you have to relearn it, and after you spend many hours into getting good at playing with a controller you are still far away from the skill level you could reach with a kb & mouse, and thats a proven fact. For example the best player with a controller plays one of the best pc fps gamers like fatality or so, fatality would totally own him up just because of the limitations the controller provides. If you think different use your controller, theres no reason for arguing about smartjoy frag then

if you were responding to my post then i think youre confused as to my views on the whole issue... i know the kb+m takes skill, i even said so... and im certainly not saying the controller takes less skill and that a person who is good with the controller could easily beat someone who's good with the kb+m... what im saying is there is less of a learning curve with the kb+m... at least to me this is such an obvious statement... when i first started playing pc fps it took me no time to get good at using the kb+m, though it did take a while to get the little 'tricks' down to come naturally... but when i first started halo it took much longer as i wasnt used to the controller... you admit that a good pc player would totally beat a good console player, yet you dont seem to see how this would be bad for console online fps...

are you one of those who needs the kb+m?

[Crypty]

This is the most retarded argument ever. You can (in theory) master both the keyboard and the controller. Thing is, you probably spend 100x as much time on your computer getting good with the k/m. So it should in fact be easier for most people.

[gcskate27]

your argument is fine except for one thing, it slights console players... you dont want to have to learn to use the controller, but you suggest that if the console player is serious, theyll switch to the kb+m...

halo2, as this is the game this device will be most used for, was meant for the xbox, ie console players... you dont want to get raped at console fps' b/c you arent used to the controller, well i, among many others, dont want to have to switch to this device to enjoy online fps'... as you say, constantly losing because youre at a disadvantage, and not because of skill, isnt fun...

[MadDog5145]

Alot speculation and arguing..........but has anyone actually tried it out yet?

[toxical]

QUOTE (gcskate27 @ Oct 5 2004, 09:13 AM)

your argument is fine except for one thing, it slights console players... you dont want to have to learn to use the controller, but you suggest that if the console player is serious, theyll switch to the kb+m... halo2, as this is the game this device will be most used for, was meant for the xbox, ie console players... you dont want to get raped at console fps' b/c you arent used to the controller, well i, among many others, dont want to have to switch to this device to enjoy online fps'... as you say, constantly losing because youre at a disadvantage, and not because of skill, isnt fun...

@maddog
not one of us, cause its not out yet...hope some site will test it soon.

@gcskate27

you are right i didnt think of that, still i dont think that the difference will be that big between good players. I have just watched a Halo2 MP Tourney Movie and those guys are really really good with a controller...if i didnt know that they played with a controller i would have said that kb+mouse...for example you would probably still own me up in halo2 with a controller no matter how experienced i am with other fps...
Still your point is right, on the other hand i think that many xbox fps players have pc fps experience aswell.
Lol something just crossed my mind...some years ago i met a quake2 player who played with keyboard + joystick, man that guy was up to most kb+mouse players skill...

[Neeero]

Have yet to know a world class fps player that actually uses anything other then a mouse.  Still, there are certain aspects of this controller that might be a limiting factor, like PS2 rate and sensitivity.

[gcskate27]

im up for a challenge... though id expect to lose...

[bendu]

but seriously...has anyone tried it?
I don't play Xbox online but I would love to have a kb/m setup for FPS.

[gcskate27]