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Author Topic: Organized Religion  (Read 1154 times)

pug_ster

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« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2005, 04:14:00 PM »

QUOTE(nsfdheo @ Nov 9 2005, 11:06 PM)
Some of the things people call “science” are really outside the realms of science; they’re not observable, testable, repeatable. The areas of conflict are beliefs about the past, not open to experimental testing.
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lordvader129

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« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2005, 04:21:00 PM »

thast the inherent flaw in arguing science vs religion

for the scientist the is little more than a work of fiction

for the theologian the will of god can supercede all scientific evidence/laws/facts
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xmedia2004

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« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2005, 04:44:00 PM »

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Nov 10 2005, 12:28 AM)
thast the inherent flaw in arguing science vs religion
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lordvader129

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« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2005, 04:49:00 PM »

QUOTE
Maybe if evolution wasnt so filled with contradictions and junk science it could be plausible.

Evolution defies common scientific logic. Just that simple.

It is nothing more than scientific conjecture, handwaiving with more faith required than religion.

maybe if evidence of creation was found in more places than just a bible (which has been scientifically proven wrong countless times) it would be more plausible and not require more faith than any science

QUOTE
Like turning lead to GOLD, wonderful theory, but just not factual.

actually at a subatomic level that would be possible, lol
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puckSR

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« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2005, 05:34:00 PM »

QUOTE
BTW, evolution does not claim that humans came from Chimps

Let me explain this xmedia.  Humans and Chimps have a common ancestor.  Evolution does not believe that dogs turned into cats, or that humans came from chimps.  Evolution believes that Chimps and Humans both came from Apes.  I mention chimps because they are the closest relative.  Plus it is an organism that most people are fairly familiar with.

QUOTE
for the theologian the will of god can supercede all scientific evidence/laws/facts


I know xmedia hates the catholics, but they are really the only good theologians around.  Thats why i posted their statements from earlier.  Most theologians and philosphers would argue that it is equally likely from a "creator god" perspective that the world was created yesterday.  I will not go into this

They believe it is possible, but they(theologians) generally do not assert that just because something is possible that it is true.  

QUOTE
Both evolution and creation fall into the category of origins science. Both are driven by philosophical considerations. The same data (observations in the present) are available to everyone, but different interpretations are devised to explain what happened in the past.

Let us not confuse science with the ‘General Theory of Evolution’ (GTE), which was defined by the evolutionist Kerkut as ‘the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form.


This is incredibly flawed.
1.  Science views the data, and then makes tries to figure it out
2.  Creationists have the answer, then they try to make the data fit, it is not based on any observation.
3.  The theory of evolution is frequently observed, repeated, and used to make assumptions as to the outcome of events.  All one needs to do is spend a day in the drug/medical field to be made keenly aware of this.
4.  If current research being conducted proves that abiogenesis is possible, will you recant?  If not, then why bring up abiogenesis at all.  Most people are not referring to Kerkut's GTE when the discuss evolution, but his claims are not wholly inaccurate.
5.  Evolution can explain both where we come from and where we are going.  It is not origin science.  IT can be, but it doesnt have to be.


QUOTE
The bible states repeatedly that life produces only after its own kind. This is certainly true as we observe the biological world around us. Dogs stay dogs, people stay people. Yet evolution preaches that all life is a blurred continuum.


This is not wholly true.  First one must consider that all of the constraints you are placing on dogs and people and everything is purely subjective.  If you were to show an alien a chihuhua and a great dane, they would probably assume they were different animals.  The fact that the continue to be able to reproduce with each other is due to many factors, but speciation has been observed many times(not with dogs).  Secondly evolution does not preach, and if it did it certainly wouldnt preach that life is a blurred contiuum.  It claims that evolution occurs in spurts to allow organisms to adapt to new enviroments.  An example of this is the constantly changing strains of flu or the common cold.  The spurts of their evolution are constant because antibodies are always being produced against them.  An organism like a fox has pretty much the same enviroment.  

QUOTE
There is abundant scientific evidence that macro-evolution has never taken place. The fossil record shows no credible links between major groups of plants and animals; the chemical structure of DNA contains useful information which could not have developed by natural process; and there is abundant evidence for a worldwide flood which contradicts evolution. Evolution is a philosophy unsupported by the majority of scientific observations. Micro-evolution on the other hand gives us the reasons that spieces all have minor physical characteristics that make us different from one another


This is a boldface lie.  First off you cannot have abundant evidence that something doesnt happen.  This is proving the negative.
There is plenty of evidence that macro-evolution occurs:
1.  Strong genetic similarities between species
2.  Having seen it occur
3.  Intermediate organisms between two distinctly different organisms

A worldwide flood would not contradict evolution, it would only contradict modern geology.  The only people who have claimed a worldwide flood are motivated by religion.  Forget the fact that there isnt enough water on Earth to flood all of the land.  Forget that even if a flood did occur in 40 days that the water would have been falling faster than physically possible.  Forget that the water would have had nowhere to go afterwards.  Forget all of that, and there is still no credible evidence that a worldwide flood occured.

Evolution is supported by the majority of scientific observations.  The theory of evolution suggested DNA long before it was discovered.  It didnt suggest just heredity, it suggested that some form of tracking heredity existed that also allowed for occasional mutation...DNA


XMEDIA what in the theory of evolution is junk science?
What about it is illogical?
Maybe if the only science you ever encountered was in a HS remedial studies room then Evolution doesnt make logical sense, but to anyone in the field it is inherently obvious.
I know you wont be able to answer this, but please try.
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puckSR

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« Reply #65 on: November 09, 2005, 05:36:00 PM »

QUOTE
If as the bible says "all scriptures inspired by God" then believing in Him and His word I have lost nothing and look forward to eternity.

If I am wrong about the bible I have lost nothing by believing in it. Thats not to say what happens to unbelievers thou.


Hey Pascal, i think this way of thinking has been proven incorrect a multiple number of times.  Plus you are rejecting the possibility of another God besides the one you believe in.  LOL
KIDS and their philosophy
 rotfl.gif
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lordvader129

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« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2005, 05:56:00 PM »

QUOTE(nsfdheo @ Nov 9 2005, 05:39 PM)
Can you please give us some of these "PROVEN" countless times?? Because I feel I have done my homework and have yet to see anything scientifically the proved the bible inaccurate.  looking forward to seeing these, thanks smile.gif
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damam

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« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2005, 06:23:00 PM »

QUOTE(puckSR @ Nov 9 2005, 01:43 PM)
Hey Pascal, i think this way of thinking has been proven incorrect a multiple number of times.  Plus you are rejecting the possibility of another God besides the one you believe in.  LOL
KIDS and their philosophy
 rotfl.gif


How has this line of thinking been proven incorrect.  

If i believe in G-d and it is true -> infinite reward
If i believe in G-d and it is false -> nada
If i believe in G-d and she is the wrong one -> I get less
If i believe in G-d and it is the wrong one but she doesnt care -> i get what everyone else gets
If i dont believe in G-d and it is true -> i get less
If i dont believe in G-d and it is false -> nada
If i dont believe in G-d and she does exist but she doesnt care -> i get what everyone else gets

generally speaking, there is nothing loss by believing in g-d, but there is the possibility of gain in a possible afterlife.  Expanding on that a bit, studies have shown over and over that religious US citizens (people regularly attending services) live longer healthier happier lives as well regardless of their faith.  So even while they are here on earth, they are generally getting rewarded for their beliefs.  

I am not saying that religious lifestyles cant be mimicked by secular circles, or that secular individuals cant be happy, only that it comes more naturally with the religious circles.
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xmedia2004

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« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2005, 01:45:00 AM »

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Nov 10 2005, 12:56 AM)
actually at a subatomic level that would be possible, lol
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nsfdheo

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« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2005, 07:51:00 AM »

smile.gif
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pug_ster

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« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2005, 09:56:00 AM »

QUOTE(nsfdheo @ Nov 10 2005, 03:58 PM)
The world-renowned crusader for Darwinism and atheism, Prof. Richard Dawkins, states:
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lordvader129

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« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2005, 10:24:00 AM »

QUOTE(xmedia2004 @ Nov 10 2005, 01:52 AM)
My point exactly, on paper, or rather in theory I can make a donkey fly, but the real world is a lot less forgiving.
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throwingks

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« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2005, 10:59:00 AM »

I think Organized Religion is a conundrum. Can you really have a religion if it wasn't organized? I think it is a bad idea however. Having morals is good on a personal level, but I have seen far too many times being a part of organized religion and having morals do not go hand in hand.
On a side note, many scientific advances were made by people that were not too ethical. After the fact helped society in many ways.

How many monkeys should we kill to find the cure for AIDS?
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xmedia2004

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« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2005, 11:14:00 AM »

QUOTE(puckSR @ Nov 10 2005, 10:21 AM)
xmedia, you really dont understand anything about this
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xmedia2004

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« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2005, 11:31:00 AM »

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Nov 10 2005, 06:31 PM)
so basically your point is with more technological advances it will be a simple matter to prove evolution, right? because thats what the whole lead into gold thing is saying to me
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