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Author Topic: New Skin Downloader!  (Read 757 times)

koldfuzion

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New Skin Downloader!
« Reply #135 on: March 22, 2004, 05:52:00 PM »
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Blazed,

I'm here to tell you that a LOT of people in the scene appreciate your hard work and the features that you have put into your site.


ditto

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There's so much misinformation going on here, it's sickening.

take some medicine


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MYTH #2: The app will eat up the bandwidth, forcing AXS to go down.

FACT:  The app is restricted to 5 downloads, period.

And if you restart the app.. you get 5 more downloads!   Period.

The limit can be remove with the pure intention to cause destruction in the scene.. taking AXS, X-S and all hosted sites offline.  He control that and him alone.(sounds like a safe proposal doesnt it. no)

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MYTH #3: Why would you write a downloader instead of going to the site? Nobody else has done this. It's WRONG!

FACT: See Avalaunch and UnleashX. Nobody is sounding the alarms about these autodownloaders.


Avalaunch was the only direct downloading dash at the time.  the skins are relatively small and you have to be insane to sit on your box and download every skin.  This dash feature also goes beyond AXS because other included site can provide skins which we may normally not allow.  I have not seen a decrease in the sites performance,  or an unusually large increase in bandwidth usage.

what is the purpose of downloading all the skins anyway? just for collection? everyone actually likes everything? no... most people only download the skins that they find stimulating to their preferences.

If you respond to this post, respond with FACTS. If you don't know enough technically to respond, keep your mouth shut.

Re: 5 download limit (unless you restart the app)
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geniusalz

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« Reply #136 on: March 22, 2004, 06:00:00 PM »
QUOTE (heinrich @ Mar 22 2004, 09:54 PM)
QUOTE (geniusalz @ Mar 22 2004, 09:40 PM)
boomboom, you create a new topic in the other forum, and when someone replies there, you feel the need to quote it here... wtf?

I merged that one here now.

Everyone, please do not start more threads on this issue.

Well, that was a manual quote before the threads were merged.
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SKllZ

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« Reply #137 on: March 22, 2004, 06:05:00 PM »
OK I think this needs to come to an end, it has gone on for far too long.  I have taken the files offline and will not be making anymore versions that will harm your site. I'm doing this out of the respect I have for BenJeremy not because of anything else! He rarely gets involved in such squabbles.  His posting put an end to this.

I have wasted too much of my time on this app. Perhaps next time,
people will have respect for others and will not get blinded by their AXS Ivory Tower.  Don’t sit there and call me names and get other members to dislike me because I bashed MomDad at the logo contest. Look at what he did.  I didn’t create this app to shut your site down.  If I wanted that, trust me, I have other ways of doing it!

In the end everyone is happy!

-SKllZ (AKA Wanker)

**GAME OVER**
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simbot82

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« Reply #138 on: March 22, 2004, 06:45:00 PM »
smile.gif
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ravage73

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« Reply #139 on: March 22, 2004, 07:04:00 PM »
QUOTE
**GAME OVER**


finally
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BenJeremy

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« Reply #140 on: March 23, 2004, 02:02:00 AM »
blink.gif It would be a nice feature... but could be abused. Perhaps KF and MomDad can chime in on how dashboards can incorporate such a feature and still preserve limits and protect the bandwidth from being raped by careless users? That would be a beneficial, useful dialog for all developers here.
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koldfuzion

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« Reply #141 on: March 23, 2004, 03:50:00 AM »
QUOTE
Now I need to wonder how the best approach will be to allow skin downloads from MXM  It would be a nice feature... but could be abused. Perhaps KF and MomDad can chime in on how dashboards can incorporate such a feature and still preserve limits and protect the bandwidth from being raped by careless users? That would be a beneficial, useful dialog for all developers here.


That has to be the best question asked in this thread.  A question without an answer so far.  UX and myself discussed the same thing for a short time too.  

The only way it will ever get done is with a known degree of allowable, but monitored, risk.

We would obviously prefer to talk about it elsewhere though, privately smile.gif
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MomDad

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« Reply #142 on: March 23, 2004, 10:31:00 AM »
That's something we've been doing all along, although part of the IP restriction wasn't working due to some broken code in one of our scripts.

IP restriction is only a small part of it though, as it's relatively easy for anyone with basic header knowledge to spoof IPs, but for the average joe it's one more barrier of prevention.

We've beefed it up beyond IP, Referer, etc.

-MD
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boomboom

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« Reply #143 on: March 23, 2004, 11:48:00 AM »
IP restriction is ALL of it.  If you spoof your IP, then the download goes to someone else.

It sounds like you are "daring" him to try to overcome your flawed protection mechanisms.  The bottom line is, if he or anyone else really wants to write a skin downloader, they can.

Why don't you swallow your ego, and let it go like Skllz did.
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mrRobinson

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« Reply #144 on: March 23, 2004, 12:50:00 PM »
boomboom, I agree with a lot of what you said in this thread but IP isn't ALL of it.  I went and downloaded skins till it gave me the message (which took a while, I didn't think the limit was that high). then i when through a proxy and changed my headers just for good measure and could download again...

So I guess someone could download their limit, go through a proxy, download again, another proxy, then again, etc.  but that's a pain just to get more than 15 skins.  Crap I use one skin in a month.  

Anyway leeching apps (for lack of a better term) exist for a LOT of sites and they all combat them.  I think the issue here is, is the effort worth it for those maintaining AXS to continue to implement measures to prevent this?  Its one thing for ebay to fight it and all but quite another and maybe not worth it for AXS.  Maybe IP will be enough but it isn't foolproof.
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koldfuzion

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« Reply #145 on: March 23, 2004, 12:53:00 PM »
QUOTE
Koldfuzion and I have been PMing back and forth, and we've identified a solution. The solution I outlined earlier will restrict downloads no matter where they are downloaded from


and I am too in a way, as it sounds like you are taking credit for solving our problem.  

Like we both said, it was in place.. just not wrapped around everything.  although i DID find my error while we were PM'ing each other.

edit:  if it was just an IP check.. then his app would work right now.

And no skIIz, AXS, MomDad and myself are not tempting you in any way, nor anyone else to find ways to bypass our measures.  Your last work was stopped and we are happy with that knowing that you will not be releasing updates.

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Maybe IP will be enough but it isn't foolproof.

Ip is not all we evaluate.

QUOTE
So I guess someone could download their limit, go through a proxy, download again, another proxy, then again, etc. but that's a pain just to get more than 15 skins. Crap I use one skin in a month.

exactly, its a pain, and thats the way we want it to be.  without locking down the site for the honest and courteous user..just being more difficult to do is ok with us.  The app this thread created made it too easy for anyone to do massive harm.
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boomboom

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« Reply #146 on: March 23, 2004, 03:16:00 PM »
If IP is not ALL of it, what else is there?  You can't use username/passwords, checksums, cookies, hidden input values, etc, because an app can bypass all of these (in fact, this is what the skins downloader did).

So what other "measures" can there be?  There simply isn't any.  IP is the only way you can guarantee restrictions based on a source, and as mrRobinson pointed out, VPN's and proxies limit that technique also.

I guess my point is, there is nothing you can do in PHP to limit downloads besides checking the user's IP.  Can anyone else think of any other way that I'm missing here?
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geniusalz

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« Reply #147 on: March 23, 2004, 03:25:00 PM »
enough, please.  Just let it go
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mrRobinson

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« Reply #148 on: March 23, 2004, 03:32:00 PM »
QUOTE (boomboom @ Mar 23 2004, 08:16 PM)
If IP is not ALL of it, what else is there?  You can't use username/passwords, checksums, cookies, hidden input values, etc, because an app can bypass all of these (in fact, this is what the skins downloader did).

So what other "measures" can there be?  There simply isn't any.  IP is the only way you can guarantee restrictions based on a source, and as mrRobinson pointed out, VPN's and proxies limit that technique also.

I guess my point is, there is nothing you can do in PHP to limit downloads besides checking the user's IP.  Can anyone else think of any other way that I'm missing here?

yes, many different forms of authentication...

but i'm sure that would be past the point of "worth it" for AXS as I mentioned earlier.  even for users it'd could be a pain.
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BenJeremy

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« Reply #149 on: March 23, 2004, 03:34:00 PM »
I'll close this thread with a parting note...

Cookies can be REQUIRED to download files. These can be encrypted and tied to an individual user. There ARE ways a cookie can be used to secure the site and protect downloads (I won't go into all of them here).

It would not bother me if AXS required a login to download.

At any rate, MXM, UnleashX and other dash devs will continue to work COOPERATIVELY with AXS to provide easy downloading and browsing of skins - within reasonable bandwidth limitations AXS imposes (as they see fit).
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